Markaudio CHN 110 building and comparisons with Genelec 8340 SAM monitors

[Tangband]

My hypex ncore has come and listening comparisons has begun between this amplifier and one of my Aiyima a04 (tpa3251 now with Opa 1612 ) , using the tunemethod. What amp brings the most enjoyment of the music and the clearest bass pitch ?

Talking about timbre, they sound a tiny bit different - tpa 3251 is slightly warmer in tone. It feels like the Hypex amplifier is slightly more powerful. The Audiophonics mpa s250 nc is the best amplifier so far in comparison with my a04.* No class A/B amp has been good enough. Lets see ….

* The chn110:s high resolution brings out subtle differences in both the source and amplifiers .

 

[Tangband]

Using the Yamaha wxc 50 as a digital preamp and the Rega as dac, the Audiophonics 250nc is slightly better sounding , not much but enough to keep it. .

I have also tried different interconnects, the Mogami 2964 with neutrik/rean between Rega dac R and the poweramp resulted in a slightly worse music experience than the basic amazon cables I used before, so I will not use mogami.
My homemade mogami-cable made the music sound slightly less dynamic, which was the opposite of what I thought before listening.

I know - no controls in those listening tests, just music.

Theres no sound difference at all between toslink or electrical spdif from the Yamaha wxc50 to the rega.

Funnily, Rega has put the ” nr 1 ” input as a toslink, maybe they promote toslink over coaxial ? Technically, one do get galvanic separation using toslink and in many cases also lower jitter than coaxial. This is ofcourse the opposite what the hifipress tells us.

Im gonna retry using the passive line bafflestep correction with the new poweramplifier, the nc250 has a higher input impedance than the Aiyimas low 23 kohm, so it might function better, maybe…

 

[WinWiz]

The ayima is load dependent. So with 8ohm speakers that might explain why you find it "warmer"

 

[WinWiz]

I have just built slim 32L ported quaterwave speakers with the chn 110.
The sound from these 5" fullrangers is mind blowing. Trying to avoid room modes I measured a single speaker outside. A single chn 110 actually managed to fill my backyard with rich deep bass. I love deep accurate bass nodes so that really surprised me!
I ended up spending all night outside listening to my all time favorite tracks and the sound is so detailed I can hear stuff that I never noticed in the recordings before.
Handles frequencies bellow 30Hz at naibor disturbing levels and seems to handle everything from symphony to phyc trance very well.
I used to think 3way speakers was better than 2way but these fullrange drivers have convinced me, sometimes less really is more. I believe single point sound source and amp connected straight to the driver, without passive or active crossover, does something I really appreciate.
Sure the chn 110 isn't perfect. On axis sound is bright but with tone control that's easy to fix. And for my application I will always listen somewhat off axis anyway.
High frequencies isn't exactly smooth but my ears can't hear anything above 12-15Khz anyway so I don't care.
I suspect the elevated and somewhat jagged high frequency response could be problematic with perfect ears and /or a load dependent class d amp without tone controls.
Offaxis measurements show a dipp at 6500hz, maybe cone breakup? But I really can't detect anything missing when listening so I don't mind.
I build these speakers for a secondary soundsystem but compared with the dynaudio speakers in my main system I actually prefer the diy chn110 speakers. So I might build another pair for the main system.
Considering the price chn110 seems like a steal.

 

[Tangband]

I have just built slim 32L ported quaterwave speakers with the chn 110.
The sound from these 5" fullrangers is mind blowing. Trying to avoid room modes I measured a single speaker outside. A single chn 110 actually managed to fill my backyard with rich deep bass. I love deep accurate bass nodes so that really surprised me!
I ended up spending all night outside listening to my all time favorite tracks and the sound is so detailed I can hear stuff that I never noticed in the recordings before.
Handles frequencies bellow 30Hz at naibor disturbing levels and seems to handle everything from symphony to phyc trance very well.
I used to think 3way speakers was better than 2way but these fullrange drivers have convinced me, sometimes less really is more. I believe single point sound source and amp connected straight to the driver, without passive or active crossover, does something I really appreciate.
Sure the chn 110 isn't perfect. On axis sound is bright but with tone control that's easy to fix. And for my application I will always listen somewhat off axis anyway.
High frequencies isn't exactly smooth but my ears can't hear anything above 12-15Khz anyway so I don't care.
I suspect the elevated and somewhat jagged high frequency response could be problematic with perfect ears and /or a load dependent class d amp without tone controls.
Offaxis measurements show a dipp at 6500hz, maybe cone breakup? But I really can't detect anything missing when listening so I don't mind.
I build these speakers for a secondary soundsystem but compared with the dynaudio speakers in my main system I actually prefer the diy chn110 speakers. So I might build another pair for the main system.
Considering the price chn110 seems like a steal.

Nice to hear !.
Yes , those chn110 speakers sound overall better than all 2-way speakers I have heard. I sold my Genelec 8340 for a reason.

Depending on the amplifier / power amp you have, and the width of the baffle and the placement of the speakers, you can experiment with a passive line level baffle step correction , If its an improvement or not. In my case, the 47 kOhm input impedance in the ncore amplifier was a better match with the passive correction than the low 23 kOhm with my Aiyima , it seems like the baffle step correction works better with the ncore.

With the passive line level bafflestep correction and the speakers front baffle about 65 cm from the frontwall I have a bit to much bass with the ncore - perfect for movies but a bit much when listening to good music recordings. Without baffle step correction there is about 1-2 dB to little bass….I will try to change the value of one resistor .
Read more about how to do line level BSC here:

BSC line-level build

Thought I'd share my build with the community - maybe this will be helpful to a few folks? During lockdown I built a pair of Scott's Chili Changs with the Fostex FE167E drivers I've had sitting in some inappropriate cabinets for 10+ years. Lovely, lovely! I could rave on about the Chili's until...

www.diyaudio.com

I have mounted 3 spikes from XTZ at the bottom of each loudspeaker - This made the sound even ”faster” , the bass pitch clearer and more exciting with rock music ( its an euphonic coloration , I know ) . I tried rubber feets also but didnt like the sound of it compared to spikes.

 

[WinWiz]

I know fosis amps output varies with frequency and I'm pretty sure Aiyams does to.
I have spent many days tweaking the speakers output with various materials, amounts and placement of speaker lining and port dimensions. So I don't think I will need baffle step compensation.
My signal chain goes like wiim -> dayton 408 dsp -> Sony TA-F530ES -> Chn110
-So lots of adjustment possibilities if needed.
Through the dsp my single wiim actually feeds 4 amps at different locations around the house.
I hope that I won't have to use the dsp for anything except as a "signal splitter" with chn110 speakers because filters mess with phase.

I will post measurements of my speakers when I get spare time...

 

[WinWiz]

So this is how it measures (1/24 smoothing)

 

[Tangband]

So this is how it measures (1/24 smoothing)View attachment 308318

A couple of questions :
1. Is the measurements taken outside ?
2. From what distance ?
3. On axis or slightly off axis ?
4. Measurement microphone used ?

If the measurements are taken outside then we see the need for baffle step correction below 350 Hz . If placed inside a room with walls we will have roomgain below 400 Hz so maybe no need for any correction in that case .

 

[WinWiz]

1: Yes outside
2: About 1m
3: On axis
4: Umik-1

I plan to flush mount the speakers in my roof overhang, above my porch.
So the overhang will act like a large baffle and increase the lenght of the port with 16mm.
The cone and port center will be pointing straight down, 24cm away from a vertical brick wall -So that should boost the low frequencies.
Normal listening positions will be at a table approximately 2 meters away from the wall. So I will probably never listen to the speakers on axis.
I think the sound will fit my usage quite well. If not I will adjust the tone controls and/or use my dsp.

This is how the speaker looks:

And this is where I will mount it:

As the speakers will be hidden I don't care about looks.
But I will paint the speakers all black for waterproofing.

 

[Tangband]

1: Yes outside
2: About 1m
3: On axis
4: Umik-1

I plan to flush mount the speakers in my roof overhang, above my porch.
So the overhang will act like a large baffle and increase the lenght of the port with 16mm.
The cone and port center will be pointing straight down, 24cm away from a vertical brick wall -So that should boost the low frequencies.
Normal listening positions will be at a table approximately 2 meters away from the wall. So I will probably never listen to the speakers on axis.
I think the sound will fit my usage quite well. If not I will adjust the tone controls and/or use my dsp.

This is how the speaker looks:
View attachment 308340

And this is where I will mount it:
View attachment 308341

As the speakers will be hidden I don't care about looks.
But I will paint the speakers all black for waterproofing.

Thanks for explaining how the measurements are done, and nice pictures.

 

[WinWiz]

To get a hint how the wall would alter the sound I placed the speaker on the ground near the wall....
Mic was placed at the table but 140cm above the ground.
Not a pretty looking graph, but at least it confirms a tonal shift from bright to dark.
I wonder how a larger baffle with a bit lower port tune will do....?

 

[Tangband]

If I got the time tomorrow, I will do some inroom measurements of one speaker on axis and 15 degrees off axis , at a distance of 1 metre using Line audio OM1.

More about line level baffle step compensation…
This is usable if you have an input impedance about 47 kOhm or higher in your integrated amplifier or poweramp.

It can be placed between the analog RCA output from a streamer to the input of an amplifier.
This diagram gives BSC from about 530 Hz and changing value of C1 capacitor changes this frequency depending on the width of the front baffle. In this case 21.5 cm wide.

C2 is not part of the BSC , its a lift in the high freq If needed. I dont think one needs it with chn110.

BSC line-level build

Thought I'd share my build with the community - maybe this will be helpful to a few folks? During lockdown I built a pair of Scott's Chili Changs with the Fostex FE167E drivers I've had sitting in some inappropriate cabinets for 10+ years. Lovely, lovely! I could rave on about the Chili's until...

www.diyaudio.com

 

[Tangband]

Here are some measurements , inroom 1 metre from one speaker, the other disconnected . I used the passive BSC I have made and described on page 5. As one can see , the response is rather flat at the frequencies where the BSC is needed.

Microphone used is Line audio OM1 flat within +-1 dB 20-20000 Hz . LTS logarithmic sinesweep. It can be found here: https://www.lts.a.se/explorer/files/Testsignaler/20-20000Hz_30s_log.wav

First - on axis with 1/24 oct smoothing and 1/3 oct smoothing . I used 200-20000 Hz because any lower in frequency its only the room I measure. Audient id14 and audiotools and an ipad.

A big rug was used damping the floor reflex.
I used a microphone stand.
Wait to comment, work in progress…

On axis :
1/24

1/3 ( more like what the ear hear )

 

[Tangband]

The same measurements but now 15 degrees of axis, which is about the angle I listen to the speaker at listening position .

Off axis
1/24

1/3

 

[Tangband]

As comparison :
Genelec SAM 8340 on axis inroom, 1 metre.

 

[WinWiz]

As comparison :
Genelec SAM 8340 on axis inroom, 1 metre.

View attachment 308525

That off axis response looks quite enjoyable.
Personally I find flat response boring, so I don't really get why so many make it such a huge deal.
Is that genelec without any smoothing?
Anyway genelec use somekind of internal dsp right?
Seems like chn110 have a tendency to peak around 17khz. Someone with perfect ears might find that behavior annoying, but doesn't bother me as I can't hear anything that high...

 

[Tangband]

That off axis response looks quite enjoyable.
Personally I find flat response boring, so I don't really get why so many make it such a huge deal.
Is that genelec without any smoothing?
Anyway genelec use somekind of internal dsp right?
Seems like chn110 have a tendency to peak around 17khz. Someone with perfect ears might find that behavior annoying, but doesn't bother me as I can't hear anything that high...

Yes, Genelec uses dsp crossover and measure very well overall. But that doesnt help - Genelec is very goodsounding no doubt but the markaudio chn110 with a good amplifier sound a bit more open , more dynamic and have more spatial illusion of 3D. With the chn110 I listen to more music than ever because its slightly more fun .

I would also say that with some music, the chn110 sounds less colored than the 8340 If the reference is a real flute, gitarr or acoustic bass. But it doesnt measure as flat .

Maybe theres something about the Fletcher/Munson equal loudness contour ?

 

[ernestcarl]

So this is how it measures (1/24 smoothing)View attachment 308318

A little bit of digital EQ ain’t gonna hurt anyone. I don’t understand why some of you avoid it all costs yet are fine with passive analog filters.

 

[Tangband]

A little bit of digital EQ ain’t gonna hurt anyone. I don’t understand why some of you avoid it all costs yet are fine with passive analog filters.

If the digital eq quality is good - no problems to use it . A bad sounding eq, digital or analog, will ruin the sound in my opinion.

 

[ernestcarl]

If the digital eq quality is good - no problems to use it . A bad sounding eq, digital or analog, will ruin the sound in my opinion.

EQ could be anything so I'm not sure what counts as low quality EQ is for this particular single driver's application. Besides it should be relatively "easy" enough to completely modify or turn off said DSP depending on the situation/mood/taste...