Marantz 70s pre-pro or something else?

[Ultrasonic]

Multeq and XT has the same very good resolution for the bass range.

I did come across this comparison earlier, although quite what this means in terms of meaningful performance metrics I'm not sure.

 

[peng]

I did come across this comparison earlier, although quite what this means in terms of meaningful performance metrics I'm not sure.

I have to re-watch his videos to understand more, but in the past I was led to believe that REW would collect the data, and also do the f, g, and q but not sure if the script would then export the data to the app, and the app would actually do the FIR filters using those data, or REW actually creates the filters. It might have been explained in the first video, ie the Audyssey One.

If REW actually does the filters, then XT32's better resolution may not matter.
At this time I really don't know, that's why I was only counting on the effects on the subwoofer range, that is MultEQ or MultEQ XT would makes no difference in that case.

 

[Ultrasonic]

I have to re-watch his videos to understand more, but in the past I was led to believe that REW would collect the data, and also do the f, g, and q but not sure if the script would then export the data to the app, and the app would actually do the FIR filters using those data, or REW actually creates the filters. It might have been explained in the first video, ie the Audyssey One.

If REW actually does the filters, then XT32's better resolution may not matter.
At this time I really don't know, that's why I was only counting on the effects on the subwoofer range, that is MultEQ or MultEQ XT would makes no difference in that case.

And MultiEQ XT32 is higher...

There could be hardware limits on what filters are possible - REW will design filters subject to these limitations (I'm familiar with this for different miniDSP models). For example if they're FIR filters (are they definitely?) then the number of taps available will affect maximum phase shifts that can be applied. Hardware capability differences certainly could vary with AVRs offering MultiEQ, MultiEQ XT and MultiEQ XT32.

 

[peng]

And MultiEQ XT32 is higher...

There could be hardware limits on what filters are possible - REW will design filters subject to these limitations (I'm familiar with this for different miniDSP models). For example if they're FIR filters (are they definitely?) then the number of taps available will affect maximum phase shifts that can be applied. Hardware capability differences certainly could vary with AVRs offering MultiEQ, MultiEQ XT and MultiEQ XT32.

I know XT32 has higher resolution.

And yes Audyssey definitely uses FIR, that's a known facts for a long time.

 

[peng]

And MultiEQ XT32 is higher...

There could be hardware limits on what filters are possible - REW will design filters subject to these limitations (I'm familiar with this for different miniDSP models). For example if they're FIR filters (are they definitely?) then the number of taps available will affect maximum phase shifts that can be applied. Hardware capability differences certainly could vary with AVRs offering MultiEQ, MultiEQ XT and MultiEQ XT32.

We all know XT32 is better but the subject avr, as you know, has MultEQ, ie the very basic version.

Talking about hardware, and you mentioned minidsp, so, my question for you on a slightly different topic is, how do you go about using FIR filters when using something like the 2X4HD, Flex or Flex 8?

I only have the Flex HT and HTx now and it seems that neither one can use FIRs. So, I may have to buy a Flex 8 as well just to play with FIR. I now regret selling my 2X4 HD a couple months ago, I didn't know it had FIR capability at the time.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

And MultiEQ XT32 is higher...

There could be hardware limits on what filters are possible - REW will design filters subject to these limitations (I'm familiar with this for different miniDSP models).

IIRC only the latest One EVO (Neuron?) uses FIR filters and the MultEQ level is relevant. In other versions only IIR is used and any MultEQ does just as well.

Another hardware limitation to consider is that the 70s does not have individual sub outs, so multisub setups are not as beneficial.

 

[Ultrasonic]

We all know XT32 is better but the subject avr, as you know, has MultEQ, ie the very basic version.

Talking about hardware, and you mentioned minidsp, so, my question for you on a slightly different topic is, how do you go about using FIR filters when using something like the 2X4HD, Flex or Flex 8?

I only have the Flex HT and HTx now and it seems that neither one can use FIRs. So, I may have to buy a Flex 8 as well just to play with FIR. I now regret selling my 2X4 HD a couple months ago, I didn't know it had FIR capability at the time.

I've not used FIRs on miniDSPs myself but you use some external software to create the filters and then upload to a suitably capable miniDSP. This article from the miniDSP website covers one way of doing this:

https://www.minidsp.com/applications/advanced-tools/rephase-fir-tool

(My comment re. XT32 was because it is objectively and I believe subjectively better and so relevant in that it's not that having basic MultiEQ means that the OP couldn't possibly want for more.)

 

[peng]

I've not used FIRs on miniDSPs myself but you use some external software to create the filters and then upload to a suitably capable miniDSP. This article from the miniDSP website covers one way of doing this:

https://www.minidsp.com/applications/advanced-tools/rephase-fir-tool

(My comment re. XT32 was because it is objectively and I believe subjectively better and so relevant in that it's not that having basic MultiEQ means that the OP couldn't possibly want for more.)

Thank you for the link, I am going to enjoy reading up on that for sure.

 

[Amari]

Thank you all for your input.
In the meantime I spend already some time with the Cinema 70s powering the Elac Vela 403 directly. For the price it is a nice setup, really happy so far. From time to time it doesn't turn on the TV (LG) when it should. But most of the time it works.

Sound wise with only 2 speakers it is already very usable and has enough power for 2 speakers. I guess with another 2 for the rear it will miss some headroom, but that was expected.
Since some of you mentioned that you use the Hypex Amps, you might be able to help me on that decicion as well.
I found some used options here:
- NAD C 275 BEE ( 550 Euros)
- NAD C 268 ( 550 Euros)
- Audiophonics AP300-S250NC (Hypex NC252MP) (380 Euros)

Since Class D advanced quite a bit, is there some good reason left to choose a 275 BEE A/B design over something like the Hypex NC252MP?

 

[Ultrasonic]

Sound wise with only 2 speakers it is already very usable and has enough power for 2 speakers. I guess with another 2 for the rear it will miss some headroom, but that was expected.

I use a pair of powered (specifically active) rear speakers with my 70s which would remove this concern. Just a different option to consider.

 

[Amari]

I use a pair of powered (specifically active) rear speakers with my 70s which would remove this concern. Just a different option to consider.

Do you turn them on and off by hand? Or do they have some standby auto sense functionality? I have an old BK Audio XLS200 Sub, which I am currently repurposing for this setup. I do not have a solution yet for turning it on and off and always forget it, as it has no trigger or auto sense function.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Do you turn them on and off by hand? Or do they have some standby auto sense functionality? I have an old BK Audio XLS200 Sub, which I am currently repurposing for this setup. I do not have a solution yet for turning it on and off and always forget it, as it has no trigger or auto sense function.

Yes, I turn them on manually - they don't have a standby mode. It would obviously be nicer if they did and then turned on automatically but I don't find it a major annoyance having to switch them on myself.

Edit: for context they are Kali LP6 v2.

 

[mcrobbj]

Hi,
I currently run a Sonos Arc + One on my TV, but like to replace it with something which does a better job at stereo music listening. The Sonos Arc is rather unsatisfying when it comes to music. I am not new into Hifi, but I would need your help to find a proper AVR, which can take the TV signal via eARC and Spotify / Tidal connect for music listening.

I was looking into the Marantz Cinema 70s, because I can get it here for around 500 Euro new, and use the pre-outs with a used stereo amp to drive both front speakers. I was looking into something in the size of Elac Vela BS, or Kef LS 50s, whatever I find on the used market.

I read the review from @amirm about the cinema 70s, which seemed to be not so great. I also wish that the 70s would support dirac. So maybe there are better alternatives to consider? Especially if I spend 500 for the AVR + another 500 for a used Amp. Maybe there is a better alternative to start up on.

Would like to know what you think.

Can I ask where you can get the Cinema 70s for 500 euro new?

 

[Amari]

Can I ask where you can get the Cinema 70s for 500 euro new?

It probably depends on where you are located. Pricing is always fluctuating around 520 - 560 depending on which color you would like to have.
For German shops, you can compare it here.

Marantz Cinema 70S ab 539,00 € (März 2025 Preise) | Preisvergleich bei idealo.de

Bereits ab 539,00 € ✓ Große Shopvielfalt ✓ Testberichte & Meinungen ✓ | Jetzt Marantz Cinema 70S günstig kaufen bei idealo.de

www.idealo.de

 

[NISSE]

Hi,
Your plan seems to be good, to use the C70s as a preamp/DAC . If yo look at Amirs test, the preout/DAC meassurements for the C70s are pretty good. I use a simmilar setup, but with a NR1606 and a NAD C272 (front). The NAD plays very good, and with 150W there are plenty of power. Highly recomended. Be careful though, before you buy. The C272 is more than 20 years old. To use the C70s as a preamp/processor is a good and cheap choice. Good luck.

I`ve now replaced the NR1606 with the C70. Works great, specially the video upscaling is a big difference to what the 1606 could do. The only hack is the C70 DAC in stereo. It`s not bad, but I tried the Topping D50 III ($300) between my Roon server (USB) and the C70 (RCA out) with Pure Direct and it sounds great. This little DAC from Topping is great value for your bucks.
Thx