Loudness Management (Fletcher-munson?) - Dolby vs Audyssey Dynamic EQ in current generation AVR's

[dlaloum]

I have been recently re-experimenting with using Dolby Volume on my Anthem Pre/Pro. I really did not like the dynamic range compression and stopped using it years ago, but found out relatively recently that you can have the dynamic EQ part active without the dynamic range compression - let's just say the manual and UI where less than fully intuitive . I really quite like it and have now removed/reduced my house curve as this dynamically adjusts the house curve quite nicely as you adjust the volume.

Took some measurements in REW to see what it is doing:

Below is absolute SPL for 5 volume levels from -20db (about the loudest I ever watch movies at) to -40db, a more comfortable casual listening level and more like what I use late night as I am in an open concept basement rec room open to the house. I found I had to reduce the forced room curve boost in bass of around 6db (that is included in the charts as the bass became overwhelming).

View attachment 253558


and here is a view of the same charts normalized to lay on top of each other to see easier what they are doing. As expected the bass is boosted and the treble midly dropped as you lower the volume to compensate for your natural hearing curves. Interesting little blip in the 2k to 3k range as well.
View attachment 253559

I used to use the Audyssey Dynamic EQ without the Dolby Volume compression (except late at night)... on my previous Audyssey AVR.

I do miss it now that I am on a non-Audyssey AVR... it is the best loudness system I have experienced so far.

 

[bigjohns97]

I currently own a Denon 3800 and use dynamic EQ on (no offset) and Dynamic Volume on low.

I recently purchased an onkyo rz-70 and found this thread worrying about missing DEQ.

I never even realized I loved DEQ so much until I tried Dirac on my 3800 and immediately got a refund once I realized it meant loosing DEQ.

I am hoping this dolby volume will provide some sort of DEQ functionality as I really don't want to be married to just Denon for the rest of my life.

 

[dlaloum]

I currently own a Denon 3800 and use dynamic EQ on (no offset) and Dynamic Volume on low.

I recently purchased an onkyo rz-70 and found this thread worrying about missing DEQ.

I never even realized I loved DEQ so much until I tried Dirac on my 3800 and immediately got a refund once I realized it meant loosing DEQ.

I am hoping this dolby volume will provide some sort of DEQ functionality as I really don't want to be married to just Denon for the rest of my life.

Try using the Dolby mixer (DSU / Dolby Surround), and enable the "Loudness" feature

You may also want to set up your target curve in Dirac with a bit of a bass boost... anywhere from +4db to +10db (to taste)

The louder you listen to things, the less bass boost you should need.... (and vice versa)

 

[bigjohns97]

Try using the Dolby mixer (DSU / Dolby Surround), and enable the "Loudness" feature

You may also want to set up your target curve in Dirac with a bit of a bass boost... anywhere from +4db to +10db (to taste)

The louder you listen to things, the less bass boost you should need.... (and vice versa)

I will give this a try when the unit arrives.

Guessing this is what you do?

But you still miss DEQ correct?

I have to ask if you still miss DEQ why didn't you just go back to an Audyssey enabled product?

 

[dlaloum]

I will give this a try when the unit arrives.

Guessing this is what you do?

But you still miss DEQ correct?

I have to ask if you still miss DEQ why didn't you just go back to an Audyssey enabled product?

At the stage where I was looking at different devices, I was moving off an older Audyssey device (Integra DTR70.4) - which did not have the "app" options available on the current generation D&M products.
This meant that it always had the MRC feature on, which messed up the midrange, and meant that I was disappointed with Audyssey.... I wanted to try something new... DIRAC

I did check that there was a loudness feature (which there is) - however what was not clear is that Dolby have moved away from "Loudness" meaning a fletcher-munson style adjustment, to something designed to enhance and highlight dialogue... so it is doing something quite different.

The Xx800 series had not been released yet... and I jumped onto an Integra DRX3.4, when it became available in my region.

My comparison between the old Audyssey XT32 and the new Dirac Live configurations, was noticeably in Dirac's favour.

Over time as I have gotten used to the "Loudness" and "Late Night" modes, I have found myself missing DEQ less...
However, I still believe (strongly) that there is a place for a proper "fletcher-munson" style loudness/DEQ feature.
The Monoprice AVP, has its own loudness feature, which overlays over whatever decoder/mixer and roomEQ you opt to use, and that is an excellent example of what we should be seeing more of!
Note: the other important feature of a loudness fletcher-muson type loudness setup, is that the "reference point" should be adjustable - which would make it much more useful for music...

 

[bigjohns97]

At the stage where I was looking at different devices, I was moving off an older Audyssey device (Integra DTR70.4) - which did not have the "app" options available on the current generation D&M products.
This meant that it always had the MRC feature on, which messed up the midrange, and meant that I was disappointed with Audyssey.... I wanted to try something new... DIRAC

I did check that there was a loudness feature (which there is) - however what was not clear is that Dolby have moved away from "Loudness" meaning a fletcher-munson style adjustment, to something designed to enhance and highlight dialogue... so it is doing something quite different.

The Xx800 series had not been released yet... and I jumped onto an Integra DRX3.4, when it became available in my region.

My comparison between the old Audyssey XT32 and the new Dirac Live configurations, was noticeably in Dirac's favour.

Over time as I have gotten used to the "Loudness" and "Late Night" modes, I have found myself missing DEQ less...
However, I still believe (strongly) that there is a place for a proper "fletcher-munson" style loudness/DEQ feature.
The Monoprice AVP, has its own loudness feature, which overlays over whatever decoder/mixer and roomEQ you opt to use, and that is an excellent example of what we should be seeing more of!
Note: the other important feature of a loudness fletcher-muson type loudness setup, is that the "reference point" should be adjustable - which would make it much more useful for music...

Thank you for taking the time to type all of that out, your love-hate relationship with DEQ is exactly where I sit today.

I love the fact that it really helps the AV experience with low volume listening on movies and tv but there are other times where the mix has good surround effect and it should be better at recognizing that and automatically tuning down the surround boost it applies. Wife has complained a couple of times on Netflix shows that she couldn't hear what they were saying because DEQ was boosting surround and bass so much it was drowning out dialog.

I am pumped to be able to try out the rz-70 and get a taste of something different but I am also concerned that I am trading one issue for many more, only one way to find out as they say.