Looking for suggestions how to improve my office desk audiophile setup

[f1shb0n3]

A diagram of my setup:

Dirac Live is set up with "Focused imaging" and measured in all 13 points.
Here's how it's measured and my target:

The latest addition to my system was miniDSP SHD and it made a significant improvement in my sound quality with the following:
- Flexible crossover that allowed me to smoothen the bass FR curve before EQ and eliminate big dips under 100Hz.
- Dirac Live - an easy to use room calibration system that delivers a very audible and very significant improvement in subjective clarity, imaging and soundstage. A/B compared it to my own REW-based calibration with the same target curve and Dirac Live sounds much better to me.

Why have RME ADI-2 in the speaker chain at all?
Loudness, Bass/Treble controls. Dynamic Loudness being most important for increasing the bass and treble up to a defined amount in a defined dB range to equalize for the perceptual differences in volume of different frequencies based on Fletcher–Munson curves. Essentially I get tonally balanced sound from high down to low volumes instead of it sounding progressively "duller" with lower volume. Important feature for me as I often listen to music at low volume late at night.

Overall my system is great and I'm super happy with it. Objective performance of the electronic chain should be close to transparent even with the additional DAC+ADC in the chain, amplifier is SOTA class D, speakers are well-measuring and well-reviewed, subwoofer is... at least big.

My question is - what upgrade could bring in the most bang-for-the-buck audible improvement in sound quality for my system?

I've prepared a poll with a few answers, here's some more details on each of them:

• All digital chain - remove DAC+ADC and upgrade DAC.
  This means upgrading to RME ADI-2 Pro for its digital output which goes in miniDSP SHD and then digital to two new SOTA DACs for an all digital chain that removes the unnecessary DAC+ADC and upgrades the DAC in the chain.
• Upgrade subwoofer.
  Infinity R12 is a cheap subwoofer that has no published measurements. Anything else is probably better than it - Rythmik, REL, SVS, even Monolith.
• Upgrade speakers.
  Elac DBR-62 are good speakers, but likely Revel M106 will sound much better. Speakers are the first thing to upgrade they say.
• Speakers are fine, upgrade headphones
  If you think the speaker chain does not need improvement, but there are better headphones. HD800s, Aeon, Sundara, etc.
• Everything is fine, enjoy the music.
  Audible improvements might be possible, but they won't be significant or would be too expensive to consider.

Any other suggestions or comments would be most welcome!

 

[twsecrest]

I like the Massdrop/Sennheiser HD58X headphones, great for music.
But there is better (more detailed audio).
I now use the Takstar HF 580 planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads.
The Drop/Hifiman HE-5XX planar headphones are temping.
https://drop.com/buy/drop-hifiman-he5xx

 

[Somafunk]

A picture of the set up in your room with dimensions would tell us more, where is the desk situated in the room?, do you have the speakers isolated from the desktop?, do you have any treatment for sbir or early/first reflections? etc…

 

[sweetchaos]

100% on the subwoofer. Did you see my ‘subwoofer comparison’ post? That should give you an idea on what subs to purchase. IMO, your goal should be at least a $500 sub…and ideally two, for best frequency response.
Heck, even if you had full-range towers, my recommendation would still be to get dual subs to help eliminate issues caused by room modes.

Otherwise, excellent setup.

 

[Chrispy]

If it isn't the speakers just enjoy, you worry too much (altho with those speakers I'd want bass management and subs)

 

[f1shb0n3]

Picture of my desk 2.1 stereo system:

Room layout as accurately scaled diagram:

The room has dimensions 18 ft. length, 11 1/3 ft. width and 8 ft ceiling height. It has two separate audio systems - a 2.1 stereo for the desk on the left which is described in my post and a 5.2.2 home theater setup on the right. Both systems share the same two subwoofers - one system is connected to left sub RCA input the other to the right.

Room treatment is only the large gray acoustic panel behind the desk that can be seen on the photo - it definitely eliminated the audible left/right wall echo. Room decor also helps - floor is carpet; there's a curtain on the bottom-side wall that covers 2/3 of it; sectional sofa absorbs a lot of sound too. With a clap test I can't hear any echo in the room.

I was not able to add subwoofer #2 (on the right) in a meaningful way to the desk 2.1 stereo system (on the left) though. Subwoofer being that far behind the listening position it needs a +6dB gain to have an influence to the overall frequency response. When I boost it that much though, bass becomes very boomy for the right side of the room from subwoofer #2 and the subjective impression from listening position is that it sounds worse with the addition of subwoofer #2 even when calibrated to the best of my abilities. My skills in subwoofer integration are rudimentary though, still learning. I'm also very limited in how I can re-arrange the subwoofers - there's basically no other convenient place for them.

 

[f1shb0n3]

A picture of the set up in your room with dimensions would tell us more, where is the desk situated in the room?, do you have the speakers isolated from the desktop?, do you have any treatment for sbir or early/first reflections? etc…

Posted picture and room layout above. I believe the room does not need additional acoustic treatment, but feel free to disagree.
Speakers are isolated from desktop with IsoAccoustics stands. These do make a difference in sound, convenience and looks.
Subwoofers are isolated with similar IsoAccounstics subwoofer stands, one with a subwoofer isolation pad in addition to that seen on the pic. Definitely reduced floor vibrations.

 

[soundwave76]

All digital Genelecs with room correction would simplify things a lot and most likely also improve sound quality. 8330/8331 with the 7350 sub. 8331 is end game. (I have this set with the ADI-2 and I also had those Sennheisers)

 

[f1shb0n3]

100% on the subwoofer. Did you see my ‘subwoofer comparison’ post? That should give you an idea on what subs to purchase. IMO, your goal should be at least a $500 sub…and ideally two, for best frequency response.
Heck, even if you had full-range towers, my recommendation would still be to get dual subs to help eliminate issues caused by room modes.

Otherwise, excellent setup.

I explained in posts above my challenges with second subwoofer integration, not having flexibility to move subs but also having two separate audio systems in the room that share two subwoofers makes it more complicated too.

I would definitely benefit from better subs. My challenge though is that I don't have any good way to evaluate and compare them objectively or subjectively. You have created a great subwoofer spreadsheet, very useful to filter products by features and discover new ones. Thanks for the time and effort you've spent on that!

Unfortunately I'm still at a loss trying to figure out the best tradeoff of money for objective and subjective improvements in bass. When there are a handful of major respected brands and each of them has many models in different price ranges it is hard how to decide how much to spend and what to buy. I will use my Infinity R12s for awhile to get "their money's worth" and educate myself about subs in the meantime.

Talking about education, I (hopefully) have the attention of a subwoofer expert so I would like to ask a question
What are the parameters by which we can objectively evaluate subwoofers in a way that translates to subjective sound quality?
For speakers we have frequency response width, linearity and adherence to target curve, directivity and distortion that correlate with subjective preferences.
When I don't care about maximum SPL of subwoofer, the only important parameter becomes "how low can it go" which is highly correlated with driver size. Picking 30Hz at 0dB as threshold does not significantly reduce the number of products on the target list. With this requirement only would there be a good reason to consider getting anything more expensive than SVS PB1000 Pro or Rythmik L12 for example?

 

[f1shb0n3]

All digital Genelecs with room correction would simplify things a lot and most likely also improve sound quality. 8330/8331 with the 7350 sub. 8331 is end game. (I have this set with the ADI-2 and I also had those Sennheisers)

That combination would indeed be great and very simple, if I was starting out from zero I would definitely have it for strong consideration.

I'm not ready for simple yet though, I still enjoy my deep branch of the rabbit hole. There's so much fun left yet to be had experimenting and A/B testing with Dirac Live, subwoofer integration, different speakers, DACs, etc.

 

[f1shb0n3]

I like the Massdrop/Sennheiser HD58X headphones, great for music.
But there is better (more detailed audio).
I now use the Takstar HF 580 planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads.
The Drop/Hifiman HE-5XX planar headphones are temping.
https://drop.com/buy/drop-hifiman-he5xx

Too many different headphones to consider, hard to pick. Very few headphones have objective measurements available and when measured many headphones greatly praised by subjectivists turn out to be highly inaccurate, distorting and/or resonant. Very few headphones have enough bass to follow the Harman preference curve.
I'm sure one day I will find something desirable from a reputable manufacturer that has good objective measurements. My current headphone preference vector is closest to some Dan Clark Aeons.

 

[Somafunk]

Good choice with the IsoAcoustics (I use aperta for speaker/sub) for isolation but if that was my room the first thing I’d do (before upgrading anything) is sort that end of the room out so it sounds good with what you have before upgrading component. move the desk to the middle of the wall so there is an equal distance between speaker and side walls, treat the side walls and ceiling for first reflections, corner bass traps and more substantial treatment on front wall behind desk, move the sub out from the corner, certainly move the electronics from the top of it.

4 gik 242 acoustic panels (600mm x 1200mm) for first reflections, two on side walls, two on ceiling
2 gik 244 bass traps with flex range behind speakers (600mm x 1200mm)
2 gik corner bass traps (possibly with with scatter plate or flex range), one in each corner
And to finish off I’d prob get 2 gik impression acoustic diffusers for behind and above your monitor.

Maybe $700ish all in, it’d certainly be an improvement over spending the equivalent on new gear such as subs or speakers.

Just an opinion as to what I’d do if I had your room and existing equipment, I fail to see the point in buying expensive gear and expecting it to perform as it should sound in an acoustically compromised environment.

edit : sorta similar to how I have my front wall treated

 

[Trell]

If you're super happy with your 2.1 system I think you should just enjoy it.

Is it a MOTU M2 I see on top of your ADI-2-DAC for use with the microphone? If so, I got the same setup in my home office.

If you want to change something perhaps look for a fan or two that is quieter than the one you have on your desk as those are usually fairly noisy.

 

[f1shb0n3]

…
Just an opinion as to what I’d do if I had your room and existing equipment, I fail to see the point in buying expensive gear and expecting it to perform as it should sound in an acoustically compromised environment.

Thanks for the suggestions! Indeed room treatment can be improved cheaper than any meaningful equipment upgrade. I’m sure it will help for the home theater, but I wonder - would the desk stereo where the main listening position is 2.5 ft ear to tweeter benefit enough from it?
I know there will be some improvement from treatment, but I don't feel capable just yet to solve the two hard tradeoffs between clutter/eyesore vs SQ improvement and too little treatment vs too much treatment creating a "dead" room. In short - I need to learn more about that. Do you have any suggestions where to start at - books, videos, etc.?
I'm most interested to know if there is a way to measure and evaluate room acoustics with REW for example. I'm not familiar with the fancy graphs it creates with measurement, maybe some of them can tell me about it?

 

[f1shb0n3]

If you're super happy with your 2.1 system I think you should just enjoy it.

Is it a MOTU M2 I see on top of your ADI-2-DAC for use with the microphone? If so, I got the same setup in my home office.

If you want to change something perhaps look for a fan or two that is quieter than the one you have on your desk as those are usually fairly noisy.

Yes, this is Motu M2. My first piece of quality electronics that fed to my old Rokit 8 G2 studio monitors for earlier version of my setup and drove the HD 58X headphones well too. Motu M2 is totally endgame all in one piece of gear for desk setup and when paired with a quality studio monitor and studio sub, calibrated with REW room correction and software EQ or Dirac Live Processor for Mac/PC it will sound incredible too.

You'd be surprised how quiet this fan is I've never seen a quieter one that pushes that much air as this one at speed 1. Still available at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007Q3RRU

But please go on - which is the fan that is quieter, more functional, more elegant and suiting to my desk setup? I'm sensing you have something in mind Indeed this would be an amazing upgrade for reducing my noise floor.
Will be installing split AC in the room soon though, could be best to invest extra in getting a quieter AC and not needing a fan at all.

 

[FeddyLost]

My question is - what upgrade could bring in the most bang-for-the-buck audible improvement in sound quality for my system?

It depends on what is purpose of your desktop system.
If you are working with production, you'd better change speakers for something more "monitor" and treat room with something.
If you are just entertainment consumer, then it depends.
I'd estimate how much time do you spend with headphones and speaker system, then either
a) exchange/add high-end headphones like recently reviewed Drop Ether CX with great sound and vanishing distortion
b) work on speaker+sub setup and room depending on RT and distortion that you have in worst case of highest required SPL at LP.
If we are talking about "bang for buck", it heavily depends on your tastes and bucks available. Subwoofer/room upgrade will be very profitable, but not cheap at all and will require a lot of time.

First, I'd move monitor behind speakers (maybe on-wall) and exchange table to something more heavy and/or damped. Your table now looks like 5/8" chipboard and most of those decks can sing-along with speakers (and sub!) very well even with decoupling stands.
Also, you can disassemble and improve damping and stiffness of speakers and subwoofer with bitumen adhesive mats and some wooden beams (for subwoofer enclosure).
Maybe even exchange some crossover components in speakers if they are cheap to replace and might improve something (like electrolytic capacitors in signal chain).
If your RT is very high in low mids (i see high peaks 100-400 on your graph, don't know for sure their origin) , some DIY absorbers from thick hollowfiber mats will be cheap and useful.

 

[Trell]

Yes, this is Motu M2. My first piece of quality electronics that fed to my old Rokit 8 G2 studio monitors for earlier version of my setup and drove the HD 58X headphones well too. Motu M2 is totally endgame all in one piece of gear for desk setup and when paired with a quality studio monitor and studio sub, calibrated with REW room correction and software EQ or Dirac Live Processor for Mac/PC it will sound incredible too. [snip]

Until a few weeks ago I used my MOTU M2 as a single device to drive my monitors using balanced out, headphones and as a mic preamp, and for that it's great, especially considering the price. However, I needed wanted a new device to replace it that could drive my Beyerdynamics DT880 headphones to a louder level. In the end I ended up with the ADI-2 DAC in addition to the M2 due to dynamic loudness and the PEQ, and now I just use the M2 as a mic preamp. If the ADI-2 Pro had had a mic preamp as well I would be sorely tempted to buy that one as to have just one device on the desktop.

Due to the pandemic with me and my wife working so much from home, I've upgraded our small home office quite a lot. Below is a picture of our small home office before I bought the ADI-2 DAC. The panels are 2" thick with scatter plates to avoid over dampening the highs, and where mostly added to reduce the flutter echo when having video calls (i.e. not sound like talking in the bathroom). The panels are not for reducing bass as they are way too thin for that.

My excellent Fuji X-T2 with the XF16-55mmF2.8 zoom is used often now for video calls and does not need much light to have a great image. My poor wife just got a new Logitech StreamCam web camera to replace her very old Creative one, but the image quality does not come even close to my setup

As for microphones I donated the Røde VideoMic NTG (a good and very portable mic that even has a small headphone DAC/amp) to my wife and got myself the Earthworks Audio SR314. From before I've the Røde NT1 but found it too much in my face when using it for video calls as it's front side addressed.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that has upgraded their home office in various ways the last year or so.

Edit: Spelling, grammar and typos. Or trying to....

 

[FeddyLost]

The panels are 2" thick with scatter plates

Looks like melamine foam and laser cut HDF.
Or maybe commercially available product?

 

[Trell]

Looks like melamine foam and laser cut HDF.
Or maybe commercially available product?

https://gikacoustics.eu/product/impression-series-50mm-acoustic-panel-diffusor-absorber/

 

[f1shb0n3]

It depends on what is purpose of your desktop system.
If you are working with production, you'd better change speakers for something more "monitor" and treat room with something.
If you are just entertainment consumer, then it depends.
I'd estimate how much time do you spend with headphones and speaker system, then either
a) exchange/add high-end headphones like recently reviewed Drop Ether CX with great sound and vanishing distortion
b) work on speaker+sub setup and room depending on RT and distortion that you have in worst case of highest required SPL at LP.
If we are talking about "bang for buck", it heavily depends on your tastes and bucks available. Subwoofer/room upgrade will be very profitable, but not cheap at all and will require a lot of time.

First, I'd move monitor behind speakers (maybe on-wall) and exchange table to something more heavy and/or damped. Your table now looks like 5/8" chipboard and most of those decks can sing-along with speakers (and sub!) very well even with decoupling stands.

I'm not doing any audio production work, just listening to music all day while working at my desk. Recently using the speakers more than headphones as they sound better to me. Headphone upgrade would be nice for that reason and the Drop Ether CX looks great indeed, definitely on my target list. I'll wait to see more Dan Clark headphones reviewed before making a choice, also interested in Aeon 2 Noire.

I was not aware that the 5/8" MDF desk top can sing along, this would be undesirable as I am only allowed to sing along with my music Definitely an easy upgrade to replace the desk top with a thicker piece of solid wood. Even if the difference in audio turns out to be minor at least will look better than the old one, so I'm definitely doing that soon!

Modding speakers and sub sounds like next level stuff that I might definitely want to do one day, but now it's above my pay grade. I'm inclined to start by building a speaker like the HiVi DIY 3.1A and then play with it along the same lines - damping, tweaking crossover and consider turning them into active DSP speakers with digital crossover for the ultimate audio hobby project.

Also, you can disassemble and improve damping and stiffness of speakers and subwoofer with bitumen adhesive mats and some wooden beams (for subwoofer enclosure).
Maybe even exchange some crossover components in speakers if they are cheap to replace and might improve something (like electrolytic capacitors in signal chain).
If your RT is very high in low mids (i see high peaks 100-400 on your graph, don't know for sure their origin) , some DIY absorbers from thick hollowfiber mats will be cheap and useful.

I suspect that the monitor between the speakers might be causing the 100-400Hz peaks. The peaks were present with the exact same setup in a different room before moving to this one. Same speakers when put on stands 8ft from a listening position do not have these peaks. Definitely have to measure them on the desk without monitor and monitor moved backwards as you propose.

Thanks for the great suggestions!