Live music in concert halls. What's the point?

[Waxx]

Look around at the typical classical audience: they are on average several decades older than the musicians!

The hope is that they don't expire before the concert ends ...

That is not the case down here in Belgium. The average age may be a bit older than for pop concerts, but many youngsters are also into classical music (next to pop) and do visit concerts. The prices of good seats are often a problem for bigger more prestigious concerts, but when it's not, they are there. But with old and young, classical music is a niche market of the more intellectual people of all ages, not mainstream popular market.

 

[Sokel]

The prices of good seats are often a problem for bigger more prestigious concerts, but when it's not, they are there.

It's only sane that is no cheap if someone consider the cost of the (really nice) places,the limited audience,the large numbers of musicians and people who help and sometimes the huge fees of the diva's.

The age of the audience somehow follows a V shape the last 50 years,younger people attend more and more.
It's both cultural and as education levels grow the number of people who attend classical grows too.

Every real music lover knows that classical is the foundation,and the people they don't,also listen to it in other forms and they don't even know it (hint: some of the great soundtracks)

 

[Robin L]

It's only sane that is no cheap if someone consider the cost of the (really nice) places,the limited audience,the large numbers of musicians and people who help and sometimes the huge fees of the diva's.

The age of the audience somehow follows a V shape the last 50 years,younger people attend more and more.
It's both cultural and as education levels grow the number of people who attend classical grows too.

Every real music lover knows that classical is the foundation,and the people they don't,also listen to it in other forms and they don't even know it (hint: some of the great soundtracks)

Like every Real (True?) Scotsman?

I mean, Prince was truly well-rounded as a musician, but he didn't go to Julliard and it shows.

I'm glad to hear that the audiences for "classical" music are getting younger. I'm not intending to go back to listening to concerts, the reasons why have all been elucidated already. But I still listen to a lot of Baroque music via recordings.

There is a twinge of a desire to go back to recording concerts of small ensembles. Symphonic recordings have more variables, more things that might go sideways, so more like real work. But recording a Baroque trio with an ORTF pair of fine microphones is like setting up a fishing pole, sitting there waiting for the fish to come by. That sort of music in that kind of recording usually sounds better in someone's living room than from any seat in the concert venue. Can't get close enough in the performance venue to get proximity effect, so these sorts of recordings of Baroque music can sound eerily real in someone's home, with that "performers in the room" effect audiophiles crave. I used to do that sort of recording with a Walkman Pro on a parallel path while recording to one or two DATs, handing the cassette (usually TKD SA, no Dolby) to the performers. They probably played it back in their cars on the way home.

 

[Sokel]

Like every Real (True?) Scotsman?

I mean, Prince was truly well-rounded as a musician, but he didn't go to Julliard and it shows.

I'm glad to hear that the audiences for "classical" music are getting younger. I'm not intending to go back to listening to concerts, the reasons why have all been elucidated already. But I still listen to a lot of Baroque music via recordings.

There is a twinge of a desire to go back to recording concerts of small ensembles. Symphonic recordings have more variables, more things that might go sideways, so more like real work. But recording a Baroque trio with an ORTF pair of fine microphones is like setting up a fishing pole, sitting there waiting for the fish to come by. That sort of music in that kind of recording usually sounds better in someone's living room than from any seat in the concert venue. Can't get close enough in the performance venue to get proximity effect, so these sorts of recordings of Baroque music can sound eerily real in someone's home, with that "performers in the room" effect audiophiles crave. I used to do that sort of recording with a Walkman Pro on a parallel path while recording to one or two DATs, handing the cassette (usually TKD SA, no Dolby) to the performers. They probably played it back in their cars on the way home.

That's for you then,ambient sound as a bonus!

 

[Robin L]

That's for you then,ambient sound as a bonus!

Not exactly.
For one thing, I dislike needledrops of mono discs that don't sum to mono, so they have surface noise in stereo. That's just amateur.
The performance is quite dodgy. Sounds like the parts are doubled, so not so much a trio.

Here are some beautiful "noises off" as performed by the sorts of musicians I was lucky enough to digitally capture, a quarter of a century ago: Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber - Sonata violino solo Representativa. I didn't record this specific group, but this was the sort of music I frequently recorded. It musically depicts various forms of wildlife, birds and frogs and cats and so on. I like the frogs the best:
.:

 

[Sokel]

Not exactly.
For one thing, I dislike needledrops of mono discs that don't sum to mono, so they have surface noise in stereo. That's just amateur.
The performance is quite dodgy. Sounds like the parts are doubled, so not so much a trio.

Here are some beautiful "noises off" as performed by the sorts of musicians I was lucky enough to digitally capture, a quarter of a century ago: Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber - Sonata violino solo Representativa. I didn't record this specific group, but this was the sort of music I frequently recorded. It musically depicts various forms of wildlife, birds and frogs and cats and so on. I like the frogs the best:
.:

It was not about the sound,but you're right,we're in ASR.

 

[tmtomh]

I don't usually listen to classical music, and my live-music habits are the same, so when I attend concerts they are usually rock, or sometimes country/roots or blues, or singer-songwriter, that general area - so mostly fully amplified performance, and occasionally true acoustic.

As I've gotten older, I have gotten more discerning and I also have become more aware of how much damage the concerts of my youth probably did to my hearing, so I attend a lot fewer shows than I used to, and I always wear ear protection (which, sadly, reduces the enjoyment somewhat, but it's simply not worth it to me to damage my hearing further).

At this point I have sworn off any indoor amplified concert - they are too loud for me and they almost invariably sound atrocious: terrible acoustics, overloaded sound, just dreadful.

I do, however, still really enjoy amplified shows at outdoor or partially outdoor ampitheaters - if anyone here is on the East Coast of the U.S. you might be familiar with Merriweather Post Pavilion in the MD suburbs of Washington DC, or the Mann Center in Philadelphia, or the Susqueahanna Center in Camden NJ. With those venues you have a choice of covered seating or fully outdoor lawn seats, and either way there's no overpressurization of the space because of the open sides - which also create minimal reflections relative to a closed venue.

It's still 50-50 whether it will sound good or not, but at least there's a decent chance that it will be worth it for the impact of seeing and experiencing a live show in-person - I find there's an emotional and physical "goosebump" experience that can't be replicated any other way, just from being aware that one is in the presence of the actual performers in real time and space. This, BTW, is also why I am so unrelentingly critical in other threads here of the "live performance/true realism" standard for hi-fi sound reproduction: for me the quality of the sound itself is not what produces spooky realism. Rather, it's the awareness that I'm actually in the same space with the performers (and with other people), and no degree of playback quality can convince my body and emotions of that when I'm sitting in my listening room.

Finally, while a great outdoor/semi-outdoor concert is a memorable event for me that I think of fondly for years afterwards, for sheer emotional connection in the moment I agree with @SIY - nothing beats being in a more intimate, close-up situation with a small group, or just duo or solo, acoustic performers, being able to make eye contact while they're playing or between songs, not having them far away or up above you on a stage, etc, and hearing the direct sound from their voices and instruments unmediated by amplification and transducers. It's quite moving.

 

[xanalog]

I've also heard (for example) the Canadian Brass at everything from a 900-seat dead, deader, deadest high-school auditorium to an acoustically live 3000-seat concert hall, and they always sounded excellent with no amplification. But, again, the instruments were designed for interior spaces of varying resonance.

Rick "context is everything" Denney

Now you tell me!

I was just purchasing a pair of ticket$ to "Salute to Vienna" New Year's Concert at Segerstrom Center.

While browsing their December 2025 schedule, I had noticed the Canadian Brass performing at the venue but moved on.
Upon seeing your post here, I went back to see who CanadianBrass was, and only to find out that they are performing tonight.
I would have gone for cheaper tickets for Vienna and would have gotten a pair of tickets for Canada, ...strictly based on your comments.

 

[L5730]

We went to a local fireworks show recently. There was a live local band playing, with breaks in their playing for the fireworks and other displays.
It didn't sound great across the other side of the field.
When in front of the small stage (think a trailer platform affair) it was far too loud for my ears to really pick out anything.

The revelation came when I firmly and tightly plugged my ears with my fingertips.
They sounded really good then, but just a little quiet - struggled to get a good balance, so settled on quiet for best overall sound quality.
The mix was great, bass was audible, drums weren't too much or too soft, fret noise and all sorts of little subtleties were present. Really nice band mix - just a shame I needed to plug my ears to 'hear' it.

 

[xanalog]

veracity

The revelation came when I firmly and tightly plugged my ears with my fingertips.

Please check/confirm the veracity of this above statement and action.
If I am not mistaken, the best action in presence of excessively loud SPL, is NOT to plug-up the auditory channel against the pressure being exerted!
The better solution may actually be to open your mouth to equalize the pressure...

 

[Philbo King]

So I went to a couple of jazz concerts in the barbican centre in London recently. One was the great Herbie Hancock and the other was Ibrahim Malouf last night, whom I didn't know much about and just went based on the recommendations of friends. I came pretty disappointed out of both and I blame SQ partially for that. In both cases I felt the fusion jazz they were playing was not fit for the poor venue accoustics and my seat, and I only received a mishmash of loud sound. In Malouf's case in particular all the edges of notes for brass instruments were being stifled pretty much. I get a much better experience at home with my mediocre setup.

I am a pretty big fan of Herbie Hancock and this was the first time I saw him live. It did seem like he was doing very interesting and innovative stuff, but the medium was obscuring it a bit.

Or am I just not getting it?

That is par for the course with live shows almost anywhere with very very few exceptions.

 

[tokyo_blues]

So I went to a couple of jazz concerts in the barbican centre in London recently. One was the great Herbie Hancock and the other was Ibrahim Malouf last night, whom I didn't know much about and just went based on the recommendations of friends. I came pretty disappointed out of both and I blame SQ partially for that. In both cases I felt the fusion jazz they were playing was not fit for the poor venue accoustics and my seat, and I only received a mishmash of loud sound. In Malouf's case in particular all the edges of notes for brass instruments were being stifled pretty much. I get a much better experience at home with my mediocre setup.

I am a pretty big fan of Herbie Hancock and this was the first time I saw him live. It did seem like he was doing very interesting and innovative stuff, but the medium was obscuring it a bit.

Or am I just not getting it?

I'm with you. Years ago I went to see Pat Metheny and Wayne Shorter (two different concerts) in large, celebrated venues, not unlike the Barbican.

In both cases the sound was so bad that it completely spoiled my enjoyment of the music. The Pat Metheny one was particularly horrible.

I never attended an A-lister jazz concert in a large venue ever since, and decided I much prefer to listen to jazz in my own home or in small dedicated venues.

 

[Ktacos]

Almost every show I go to now sounds terrible, I have no idea what's up. It double sucks because I work in live sound and regularly mix shows and nothing we do sounds even remotely as bad as some of the shows I'm buying tickets to. I just want to hop behind the console and fix everything.

Most recent show was a group called Night Tapes, literally could not hear the vocals the entire show, the guitar was practically inaudible even at major solo parts. It was basically just all bass. This one is really annoying to me because all you have to do is turn the low end down. I don't buy the idea that the bass is different at FoH vs the rest of the venue because I tend to make it a point to stand near FoH, I find if the bass is too loud there, it's too loud everywhere.

 

[Ben Jenssen]

Almost every show I go to now sounds terrible, I have no idea what's up.

I think our craft is deterioriating steadily. Sure, there are still audio engineers out there creating album productions and making great recordings, but they are fewer every year. TV, radio, streaming services are not willing to put money/effort into having pro audio folks managing their audio. I'm guessing this spills over to live audio too. I hear it all the time; people behind the controls not understanding how compression works, dull sound because they have too bright monitoring, and everybody thinks you have to have this mediocre Sony C1 microphone to do a podcast.

 

[L5730]

veracity

Please check/confirm the veracity of this above statement and action.
If I am not mistaken, the best action in presence of excessively loud SPL, is NOT to plug-up the auditory channel against the pressure being exerted!
The better solution may actually be to open your mouth to equalize the pressure...

My mouth was open, gaping in fact at how loud this was! I can assure you it's not a pressure equalising thing that was needed, but just a whole lot less volume coming to my ears. I could never hear bands properly in pubs - step outside and they actually sounded OK, or at least I could 'hear' them. I don't do well with loud noise, I guess my hearing distorts early on.

My fingertips were basically acting as ear plugs. It was a lot quieter and I really, really, really, struggled to hear what someone was saying to me, because well, I had my fingers in my ears

In my context, because the volume was sooo much more reduced, literally blocking a lot of it, the band sounded pretty decently mixed and I could hear lots of details - albeit really a bit too quiet now. Couldn't find a happy medium, leaving a little gap with my fingers let in too much of the 'outside' sound and it sounded distorted and bright/splashy < for want of better terms.

I guess the reason they didn't sound good at a distance is because frequency response was changed by travelling across the field and unbalanced a decent mix closer to the stage? I dunno, but it didn't sound great at a distance where the volume was acceptable... *shrug*

 

[tineared]

I stopped going to concerts over 12 years ago.
The venues around here mostly have very good acoustics and PAs, but everyone usually ends up standing and I hate that
In the old days that didn't happen until the encore, but not anymore
It was a motivating factor in assembling a home theater that can reproduce a "live" experience in my house
I'm older now and being able to sit in a comfortable chair and control the volume is priceless
My biggest complaint is the lack of really well-recorded concert performances from bands that I like
Most of the well-recorded shows are popular music and that just doesn't work for me
But I have enough to keep me busy
I think tonight I'll go to Ronny Scott's to watch Jeff Beck play (in 2007) in my living room

 

[Bwaslo]

For a rock concert can depend a lot on who is handling the PA controls. Years back I was at a TheyMightBeGiants concert where they uncluded a horn section - fantastic sound, great performance, best live rock I've heard. Same band came back the following year, same venue, and I was in about same seating area, and that was probably the worst and dowright painful live concert I've ever heard. The difference, I'm pretty sure, was drunken idiot running the mixing board the second year. I'm STILL pissed off about that!

 

[Ktacos]

I'm older now and being able to sit in a comfortable chair and control the volume is priceless

This x1000.

I'm on the younger side of life and even I am just tired of of every event being standing with no seating. Some places seems like they have chair police and will have absolutely no chairs in the venue. I tend to try to go to outdoor events instead, can bring your own chairs and they tend to sound better.