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KEF R3 OR BOWER & WILKINS S706 s2 ???

thewas

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There was a reason why I asked you to read up more and not just pick bits and pieces without having read the larger context.
Like for example from the same paper:

The programs were selected on the basis of their ability to reveal spectral and preferential differences between different loudspeakers in over 100 different listening tests and various listener-training exercises.
 
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HarmonicTHD

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Like for example from the same paper:

The programs were selected on the basis of their ability to reveal spectral and preferential differences between different loudspeakers in over 100 different listening tests and various listenertraining exercises.
Yes and some other related paper from Olive said: 70 speakers and some 260 listening tests lead to the „Harman Preference Curve“ plus he also keeps referring back to the initial studies financed by the Canadien Consumer Union before both moved to Harman later and derived the anechoic flat preference.

But I would have to look it up as I am quoting from memory and might be wrong.

@BDWoody There is a whole bunch of OT stuff about Harman studies. If the OP is fine and you have a better place, I don’t mind moving it.
 
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preload

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Here's the answer, btw:
ArtistTrackMusic Genre
James TaylorThat’s Why I’m HereFolk rock
Little FeatHangin’ On to the Good TimesBlues rock
Tracy ChampanFast CarFolk/Blues rock
Jennifer WarnesBird on a WireCountry rock
You conveniently picked the 5 tracks which include the word rock to support your incomplete picture and misconceptions - again don’t pick the bits and pieces out of context.
Hold on a sec, @HarmonicTHD
Are you saying there were more than 4 music tracks utilized in Olive's research paper that correlated loudspeaker preferences with measurements?
And that I deliberately picked only the tracks that were considered "rock music" in order to mislead people here?
There was a reason why I asked you to read up more and not just pick bits and pieces without having read the larger context.
@HarmonicTHD On multiple occasions, you accused me of deliberately picking only the rock tracks out of the music library used in Harman's study that correlated loudspeaker preference with measurements, implying that I didn't understand the research (and that you did). And you opined that I had an "incomplete picture" and that I needed to "read up."

Below is Table 2 from Olive S, "A Multiple Regression Model for Predicting Loudspeaker Preference Using Objective Measurements: Part 1 - Listening Test Results." JAES 2004.

1674574149773.png

As you can plainly see, there were, in fact, only 4 tracks used. And these 4 tracks match 1:1 with the 4 tracks I listed previously.
They are all considered rock music.

I think you owe me an apology.
 
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Benedium

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Ok ok so the worst is the best and cheap is good cos human hearing is completely subjective and undiscerning.
 

HarmonicTHD

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@HarmonicTHD On multiple occasions, you accused me of deliberately picking only the rock tracks out of the music library used in Harman's study that correlated loudspeaker preference with measurements, implying that I didn't understand the research (and that you did). And you opined that I had an "incomplete picture" and that I needed to "read up."

Below is Table 2 from Olive S, "A Multiple Regression Model for Predicting Loudspeaker Preference Using Objective Measurements: Part 1 - Listening Test Results." JAES 2004.

View attachment 259537
As you can plainly see, there were, in fact, only 4 tracks used. And these 4 tracks match 1:1 with the 4 tracks I listed previously.
They are all considered rock music.

I think you owe me an apology.
:facepalm:
You keep picking bits and piece which only support your ill conceived belief that Harman (Olive) studies are based on “rock” songs and ergo the studies only apply to rock music (did you even read, let alone understand the paper and graph @thewas linked for you).

I asked you multiple times to look at the entire work of Toole, Olive and the conversation with @thewas today gives numerous hints that not only other genres were used but also (pink) noise (even the audioscience link you got from thewas and linked to me included pink noise) and your claim is not supported by the publications.

I can’t apologize for your continued deliberate selective perception and I am wasting my time here doing your homework.

I am out. Please return the favor and put me on ignore too.
 

preload

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:facepalm:
You keep picking bits and piece which only support your ill conceived belief that Harman (Olive) studies are based on “rock” songs and ergo the studies only apply to rock music (did you even read, let alone understand the paper and graph @thewas linked for you).

I asked you multiple times to look at the entire work of Toole, Olive and the conversation with @thewas today gives numerous hints that not only other genres were used but also (pink) noise (even the audioscience link you got from thewas and linked to me included pink noise) and your claim is not supported by the publications.

I can’t apologize for your continued deliberate selective perception and I am wasting my time here doing your homework.

I am out. Please return the favor and put me on ignore too.
Apology accepted.
 

jharris91

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Or the "quantum stickers":

"Peter, I can’t believe what I’m hearing! This is incredible!"
- G.C. Tasmania (Quantum Stickers)

"This is insane! I can’t think of any logical reason why these stickers should do what they do…but they’re doing it anyway…and how! This is the best, most cost-effective upgrade I have ever tried...and that's over 40 years in audio! If this is audio voodoo, give me more of it!"
- P.S. Victoria (Quantum X2 Fuses and Quantum Stickers)

"This sceptic is well and truly convinced…I’ve gone dotty!"
- B.L. Victoria (Quantum X2 Fuses and Quantum Stickers)

"If I had found these things years ago I would have saved a lot of money. I’m hearing things I’ve never heard before!
The ambiance, the imaging, the voice, the definition…amazing!
The noise floor dropped dramatically! I can hear everything! The best upgrade in audio!"
- P.W. NSW (Quantum X2 Fuses and Quantum Stickers)

"I have never heard anything like this…anywhere!"
- D.L. NSW (Quantum X2 Fuses and Quantum Stickers)



If we are going to turn this into Audio Subjective Review, my brother owns a pair of KEF R5s, and I have listened to the 706 S2 as well. I find it very strange that anyone would prefer the B&Ws. To me, they sound bright and tinny, and the soundstage is lacking (I currently own a pair of Revel F208 and M16).

Subjective opinions based on uncontrolled listening are, well... not reliable.

Just look at this review of another B&W speaker, the 606 S2 (5/5):

Move up the frequency range and the steps up in articulation and clarity are striking. Voices come through with greater subtlety, and it’s easier to hear changes in intonation and phrasing. The Series 2 offers a clearer view of the recording and sounds more balanced overall.
...
Their presentation is tauter, and a little more forward than the originals, but also sounds more natural and transparent. Tonally, there’s been a shift away from what now seems like a slightly over-blown bass and overly rich lower midrange to something more neutral. :facepalm:
...
As the music builds, these speakers have the composure and organisation to keep things under control. They rarely sound flustered or stressed no matter how demanding things get.
...
Along with the improved muscle, we’re finding it easier to track low-level instrumental strands and pick up on fine detail. The new model conveys instrumental textures with more skill and locates instruments within the sound stage with greater stability.



And then you have this review (It's the same speaker. S2 is the Anniversary Edition. And yes, I know he liked the 705 S3).

The review is very negative, and so are the comments:

I just got my B and W 606 s2s up and running today. I was shocked. It's for this reason that I went online to see if others have had the same experience as mine. Well, I agree completely with the reviewers here. These are very harsh speakers. There is 'bright' and then there are the 606 S2s. These are being packed up and returned tomorrow.
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Totally agree, i have those speakers and it is so bad that I thought they where broken
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I have the 606 and I can't enjoy music on these speakers. make me fatigue/headachy. the same songs even sound more musical on my Huawei p30 phone speakers. it is definitely harsh in my experience and I hope to replace it in the future
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I got some B&W 706s and they sound sort of OK but a bit ordinary for the price.The voice sound isn't near throaty enough and sounds just a little bit muffled while the highest highs are stinging. The ride cymbal rocks but the voice sounds 2D and "boxed in".
...
I have owned a pair for 2 months and have tested them with what I consider two be warmish amplifiers and I although they do some things well they are to bright. They give me a headache after an hour. I've actually bought a cheap pair of Q acoustic 3020 as a place holder until my 606s2 sell on eBay.
...
And I thought my hearing was damaged because most people were praising these speakers
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I love B&awesome but hated these. After 15 minutes I was totally fatigued. So glad to read a review that echos EXACTLY how I found them.
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I bought the 606 s2 because I enjoyed the previous 606s so much,but I have to agree with you on the 606 s2.they are all treble and hardly any bass,and I sold them within 2 weeks of buying them
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Guys, I couldn’t agree more with you on this review. I actually bought a pair of 606 s2 anniversary editions and found the sound beautiful but fatiguing. It was honestly bittersweet to return them because they are special speakers minus the crazy brightness issue, but even after hours of burn in I just didn’t want to listen to music.
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I'm in my 60's and I found these speakers too damned bright and not neutral when I heard them. And I hate excess sibilance! I shun such speakers (and am just as repeled by one-note bass as well)! Thanks for the confirmation; wow!
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Everyone who disagree with this don't have good and sensitive ears or are fooling themself. Doesn't matter what amp you are using or what kind of room. They sound just terrible anyway.



But there are B&W fans as well:

Must be something wrong with your ears?
...
Obviously can't get these speakers free from B&W hence this nasty video
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This review officially puts you in the fool category. Can't watch anything you put out again.
...
Its for the views. They wanted to get 200k fast and to do that, shitting on some well known product is the obvious thing to do. They lost my respect and unsubscribed.



So what did we learn from all this, without looking at measurements? Nothing, really. It's all just subjective "data".


From the Reddit thread:

Sales guy in the room stated a strong preference for the BW 706 S2 vs the R3.

the BW sounded significantly better. To my untrained ears, the 706 S2s just seemed to have more clarity, more 3d imaging, just more overall ”enveloping” sound. The music coming out of the speakers just seemed noticeably ”richer” to my ears.

R3 where on a shelf, only a few inches from back wall.

706 s2 were on a shelf as well, but due to the size difference of the speakers, they had more room behind them.

Source material was just what was on Best buys Demo application screen — a few live DMB songs and some other stuff I wasn’t as familiar with.



To summarize, a random guy/girl with "untrained ears" walks into a Best Buy. The sales guy states a strong preference for a bright speaker, and they listen to stuff that the customer isn't familiar with. The speakers are on a shelf - not stands, and the KEFs are placed "only a few inches from the back wall".

I mean, who needs measurements, when we have "data" like this? ;)

B&W speakers are designed to "impress" at a demo. The result is pretty much expected.
I say you have to break-in new speakers for at lease60 hours before passing any judgement.
 

fpitas

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I say you have to break-in new speakers for at lease60 hours before passing any judgement.
Uh oh. Those are fighting words around here! Unlikely, too.
 

fpitas

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TheBatsEar

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I say you have to break-in new speakers for at lease60 hours before passing any judgement.
Welcome to ASR :cool:

As @fpitas wrote, we don't break in speakers, we break in our ears. We actually adapt to the speakers (or even rooms, even music itself).
That is why i never pass judgement on any speaker before a few weeks have passed (and i have switched back to my "reference", the speaker i like right now).
 

fpitas

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A major source of confusion is that drivers do measurably change as they are used. But if you analyze the situation, when a driver is mounted in an appropriate enclosure, it turns out that the changes tend to cancel. That is revealed by analysis and measurement of finished speakers.
 

anarchist

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Hello guys I need some help here , I'm setting up a Home theater / listening room but I have 0 experience with audio so i hope some ppl give me some insight on which one of these speaker will work
better for me ., this would be a big purchase and i don't want to spend money on somethi8ng that it may not work or make a poor selection.

Planning to do a 5.1.4 system matching only LCR (surround will be same brand but smaller speaker/quality )
Room size 14Lx11.5Wx12H

I'm planning to buy this separately and at discount price from BB ., originally I was planning to do BMR Philharmonic on LCR but the amount of money i can save buying from best buy is just a no brainer i have my eyes on KEF R3 OR BOWER & WILKINS S706 S2
I auditioned both, from signature perspective they sound opposite: B&W is very open, airy, somewhat bright, KEFs are typical with warm sound which also kinda congested/restrained in vocals. I think KEF's coaxial drivers while very accurate technically cannot deliver tonal notes in vocals in same way that regular speakers do, they sound to me as if vocals come out of a tube and vocalists have stuffy nose.
 

gitesh

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Hello . I have b & w 706 s2 and I get eat fatigue listening to them . Based on these measurements can anyone suggest equaliser settings for offsetting the brightness?
 

Doodski

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Hello . I have b & w 706 s2 and I get eat fatigue listening to them . Based on these measurements can anyone suggest equaliser settings for offsetting the brightness?
What PEQ software system are you using?
 

Doodski

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I am going to first try an App from my Lenovo laptop equaliser . Once I get a hang of it I plan to get wiim pro plus which has peq.
For your Lenovo laptop install this and then install this.
Open the Peace Equalizer (Disable auto updates @ startup.) and adjust to your hearts content. All free software. Parametric equalization with graphic display.... and many many other features on the 2nd window of the Peace EQ.
I maintain the EQ/PEQ software webpage for ASR.>>>
 

gitesh

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For your Lenovo laptop install this and then install this.
Open the Peace Equalizer (Disable auto updates @ startup.) and adjust to your hearts content. All free software. Parametric equalization with graphic display.... and many many other features on the 2nd window of the Peace EQ.
I maintain the EQ/PEQ software webpage for ASR.>>>
Thanks . Any equaliser settings suggestions based on b & w 706 s2 audio measurements?
 

Doodski

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Thanks . Any equaliser settings suggestions based on b & w 706 s2 audio measurements?
Do it by ear. Slide those sliders around and make your own sound. There are so many variables that until you get a USB calibrated microphone and REW software the ear method is the way to go.
 

gitesh

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Do it by ear. Slide those sliders around and make your own sound. There are so many variables that until you get a USB calibrated microphone and REW software the ear method is the way to go.
Is there a system wide eq option for iPad also . I primarily stream Amazon music to my stereo set up
 

Doodski

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Is there a system wide eq option for iPad also . I primarily stream Amazon music to my stereo set up
I am not aware of a system wide PEQ for iPad but you could try here @ the webpage below. I do have suggestions though for Mac if that is helpful<?>
 
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