JBL Studio 590 Speaker Review

[computer-audiophile]

The general shape is still there, and there is only a small step

Not true! There is also a cutout near the Horn entrance, the horn contour is disturbed.

 

[Sokel]

Everyone is talking about that the 2Khz distortion,right?
What about that 10Khz nightmare?

We are all about tar and feathers if an amp has 103db SINAD over it's 106db specified SINAD for example and we forgive a speaker that will iron everything to 40db SINAD (even worst @ 10KHZ) there?
That's odd...

I insist,there's must be something broken in there.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Everyone is talking about about the 2Khz distortion,right?
What about that 10Khz nightmare?

We are all about tar and feathers if an amp has 103db SINAD over it's 106db specified SINAD for example and we forgive a speker that will iron everything to 40db SINAD (even worst @ 10KHZ) there?
That's odd...

I insist,there's must be something broken in there.

I'm honestly a little perplexed by what I'm seeing here, too. Maybe we need more independent measurements?

 

[GabrielPhoto]

They are not bad at $1000. Just that they have more competition at higher prices. A dent in a $1000 used car is fine. It is not fine in a $50,000 car.

Some people are just overly dramatic lol

 

[voodooless]

Not true! There is also a cutout near the Horn entrance, the horn contour is disturbed.

Well, yes, but the overall shape is still there.

 

[hmt]

Everyone is talking about that the 2Khz distortion,right?
What about that 10Khz nightmare?

We are all about tar and feathers if an amp has 103db SINAD over it's 106db specified SINAD for example and we forgive a speaker that will iron everything to 40db SINAD (even worst @ 10KHZ) there?
That's odd...

I insist,there's must be something broken in there.

Higher order byproducts of 10KHz is probably not audible. Many of us dont even hear anything meaningful at 10KHz. The 1,4KHz distortion is more troublesome. However people are right when they say 2nd order distortion is not nearly as audible (and does not sound really bad) as one might suggest. Imo IMD is much more annoying.

 

[Sokel]

Higher order byproducts of 10KHz is probably not audible. Many of us dont even hear anything meaningful at 10KHz. The 1,4KHz distortion is more troublesome. However people are right when they say 2nd order distortion is not nearly as audible (and does not sound really bad) as one might suggest. Imo IMD is much more annoying.

Sorry but I have tried that kind of distortion with PKharmonic and is VERY much audible even lower than this.
I can even describe as the one 10Khz tone (which anyone can hear,you have to be 90 yo to not) seems like a two-tone signal as you increase distortion,it's "fater" and thicker.
But again,VERY much audible,you can try it with PKharmonic,etc.

Edit:link

 

[musicforcities]

that big horn

Not a horn tweeter. As I understand it is a dome with a massive wave guide. Big difference. But maybe I’m wrong.

 

[musicforcities]

I don’t care. It’s shit engineering and they should fix it.

But then that dufus at gr research or whatever it’s called would not be able to sell you upgrades that cost the same as the speaker!

 

[Dialectic]

Are these discontinued?

 

[musicforcities]

A dent in a $1000 used car is fine. It is not fine in a $50,000 car.

I think maybe a different analogy might be more apt:

One could buy craptastic sedan or sports car for 50k or very good ones at the same price. But One would expect a sedan or sports car that costs $100k to perform better, at least in some ways, than one at $50k. And like have fancier materials and finishes.

Thus if a Toyota Camry , a fine car, cost as much as an equivalent Lexus, or even 3/4 of the price, you might think twice about buying the Camry.

Harmon audio has so many 50% sales so often of the studio line speakers (and other lines and even Brands ), I honestly don’t know who buys them at list price. Just wait 6 months and there will be another sale. The list price is sort of a fiction.

 

[ROOSKIE]

I never complained about the audibility, I complained about the engineering, and mostly about the fact that this is present in so many JBL designs. It’s similar to the famous ESS IMD hump. Audibility is highly unlikely, yet we complain as soon as it shows up in measurements

I would not be surprised if it is of little consequence. The general shape is still there, and there is only a small step. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see how much difference it really makes.

Yah, well there is no way to know for sure if it makes a difference as it is impossible to isolate and to create a venue to compare the exact design with and without the harmonics added.

Geddes did some testing to try and from my memory what he found strongly indicated that high levels of the kind of HD (2nd order) that many waveguides and horns add is not an issue.
That is enough for me as I perceive him as on level with Olive, Toole, whoever.

I think we make too much of transducer HD on this forum. The science out there suggests HD in general is of much less importance than many might believe, while other aspects of transducers are clearly important.

In electronics there is no 'trade', if you have artifacts like the ESS chip they just don't need to be there in 2023. Speakers still have many trade offs worth choosing one over the other. Ultimately it will depend on the user to select the proper trade.

Not a horn tweeter. As I understand it is a dome with a massive wave guide. Big difference. But maybe I’m wrong.

It is compression driver in a horn/waveguide, it is not a dome tweeter.

Sorry but I have tried that kind of distortion with PKharmonic and is VERY much audible even lower than this.
I can even describe as the one 10Khz tone (which anyone can hear,you have to be 90 yo to not) seems like a two-tone signal as you increase distortion,it's "fater" and thicker.
But again,VERY much audible,you can try it with PKharmonic,etc.

Edit:link

Yes, of course it is likley audible with test tones.
With content I doubt it.

Everyone is talking about that the 2Khz distortion,right?
What about that 10Khz nightmare?

We are all about tar and feathers if an amp has 103db SINAD over it's 106db specified SINAD for example and we forgive a speaker that will iron everything to 40db SINAD (even worst @ 10KHZ) there?
That's odd...

I insist,there's must be something broken in there.

I think the missing waveguide piece could create a 'whistling' or harmonic depending on the airflow being affected by the surfaces.

FWIIW, I have tested several JBL 530 units that do not have the HD spike that Amir measured on the 530 set he tested way back when. Who knows. it really needs to be retested, that missing piece is a big miss and that is just the way it is. Even if it changes nothing that would be very interesting to see.

 

[musicforcities]

Are these discontinued?

Doesn’t look like it on the website

 

[Robbo99999]

(If the speaker cover is an integral part of the waveguide then it needs to be redone, although I have no idea if this is actually the case - but if it is then it should be redone, as speaker cover is an integral part of the speaker. Can understand why most people would review without speaker cover because normally they're supposed to be transparent or detrimental.)

EDIT: my casual observation suggests the speaker cover is not an integral part of the waveguide though:

Studio 590 | 250-watt, dual 8" floorstanding loudspeaker

The JBL® Studio 590 floorstanding loudspeaker brings professional-quality sound to the home experience. The Studio 590 uses the technology that JBL engineers developed for pro-audio loudspeakers to deliver accurate, powerful sound to your living room. The Studio 590 is a perfect complement to...

www.jbl.com

 

[ROOSKIE]

Supposedly an advantage of compression drivers is their ability to play loud. But these measurements show considerable distortion at 96dB. Many dome tweeters have done better at that level. Granted, these are relatively inexpensive compression tweeters.....

Well the tweeter in my 530's which is a step down from the tweeter used in the 590's can paly louder without any audible strain or measured strain that any other comparably priced set of speakers I have ever tested.
You have to high pass at about 125-150hrz(to protect the 5.25" woofer) and use a 300+ watt amp as the speaker has low efficiency.
In any case it is formidable at that point and I have driven the 300+ watt amp to light clipping in testing.

I suspect if the HD is from airflow issues in the compression chamber and the horn design than you are not dealing with a tweeter at it limits. Rather side effects of the loading design.(kind of like port noises, you can have port noise long before a woofer is hitting it's own limits)

The tweeters in both the 530/570/580 and the version used in the 590 are used in PA equipment and hit 120-130db@1m levels just fine.

(If the speaker cover is an integral part of the waveguide then it needs to be redone, although I have no idea if this is actually the case - but if it is then it should be redone, as speaker cover is an integral part of the speaker. Can understand why most people would review without speaker cover because normally they're supposed to be transparent or detrimental.)

There is a piece you put in to complete the waveguide if the grills are off. The speakers are packaged with it.

 

[Robbo99999]

There is a piece you put in to complete the waveguide if the grills are off. The speakers are packaged with it.

Amir didn't use that extra piece then?

 

[Sokel]

Yes, of course it is likley audible with test tones.
With content I doubt it.

I think the missing waveguide piece could create a 'whistling' or harmonic depending on the airflow being affected by the surfaces.

Maybe so but in review threads is not so much about audibility but engineering.
And people have trashed stuff way,WAY more inaudible than this to the point of shame.

Maybe this missing piece makes the difference but as is...

 

[ROOSKIE]

Amir didn't use that extra piece then?

No.
I also use a bit of extra two sided tape at the bottom of the plastic as the piece fits a little loosly.

 

[Robbo99999]

No.
I also use a bit of extra two sided tape at the bottom of the plastic as the piece fits a little loosly.
View attachment 306754

Well, to be honest then, it should be remeasured with that in place, because they've obviously intended that to be there if you take the grills off! How much actual difference it makes would be genuinely interesting to see. I think it should be remeasured then.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Maybe so but in review threads is not so much about audibility but engineering.
And people have trashed stuff way,WAY more inaudible than this to the point of shame.

Maybe this missing piece makes the difference but as is...

Yes, and the compression tweeter allows for high SPL playback at the expense of 2nd order HD.
There are $600+ for a single pro compression tweeters/guide combo with this level of 2nd HD and higher.

It really comes with the territory of the design for some reasons.

I see it as like with woofers, ported enclosures have noise issues that sealed box designs do not. Yet porting allows for much better bass extension and much more output with less power. A trade off.
That is the type of engineering choice.

However, the ultimate SPL ability of the 'pro' tweeters is not tested here objectively. That said subjectively, Amir did not complain and I beleive he would find the speakers can play very loudly. Like many others, he found for some reason they are not bright like might be expected. I felt the same way about the 530's and 570's.

The shaming thing is not always off the mark, some designs have been bad. And it is also sometimes not on the money. Many folks here have never made any designs or know what all the possible trade offs are, so in that way it makes it hard. I mean we are all learning, most here are not beyond the informed novice level. Myself included of course.