Is there any budget DAC for DSD1024?

[voodooless]

ecent tests done by Jussi (Signalyst) have shown that both ESS and AKM do not support direct DSD.

Source?

 

[Gerardo61]

Source?

Sorry...
here is the source:

Best native DSD DACs for use with HQPlayer?

I currently use an RME ADI-2 DAC and like it, but I have fairly neutral and forward amplifier (NC500 with Sonic Imagery op-amp) and Volent speakers, so a little smoother and more organic sound from the DAC would probably be a good thing. Note that I don’t want full “mumble mumble” tube sound...

community.roonlabs.com

from post #991 you could find your answer

 

[Apesbrain]

So WHY would you want DSD1024 ?!

To quickly fill up your hard drive! Each album is 4 GB.

 

[JSmith]

Each album is 4 GB.

JSmith

 

[Gerardo61]

To quickly fill up your hard drive! Each album is 4 GB.

Actually no because the upsampling is done by HQPlayer Server on the PC so files 16/44.1 or higher are upsampled to DSD128,256,512 or PCM up to 1536 KHz. So you don't need any more space than the native files.
All you need is a powerful PC. Personally I use an I5 12400 with 16 Gb DDR4 and I upsample up to DSD 512 without problems.
I don't have any measuring tools but IMO HQPlayer 5.5.1 with Ubuntu 22.04.3 sounds very good with a detail and three-dimensionality that I haven't found in other players (Foobar, JRiver, Daphile).
My endpoint is a SOtM 200 ultra neo connected to the Topping E30II DAC that I just purchased and which sounds wonderfully good. Amplification is entrusted to Jadis I50 (50+50w Class A push-pull KT150 tube) and the speakers are Acoustique Quality Pontos 6 with Pontos W Subwoofer

 

[dlovesmusic]

Hi, I also thought the AKM chips support DSD direct. Recent tests done by Jussi (Signalyst) have shown that both ESS and AKM do not support direct DSD.
Only Holo Cyan 2 has a double raid (PCM and DSD) which allows you to have direct DSD without using a chip

Depending on the implementation some of the akm 4499 dacs can support direct dsd in 128 and 256 according to Jussi

 

[dlovesmusic]

Actually no because the upsampling is done by HQPlayer Server on the PC so files 16/44.1 or higher are upsampled to DSD128,256,512 or PCM up to 1536 KHz. So you don't need any more space than the native files.
All you need is a powerful PC. Personally I use an I5 12400 with 16 Gb DDR4 and I upsample up to DSD 512 without problems.
I don't have any measuring tools but IMO HQPlayer 5.5.1 with Ubuntu 22.04.3 sounds very good with a detail and three-dimensionality that I haven't found in other players (Foobar, JRiver, Daphile).
My endpoint is a SOtM 200 ultra neo connected to the Topping E30II DAC that I just purchased and which sounds wonderfully good. Amplification is entrusted to Jadis I50 (50+50w Class A push-pull KT150 tube) and the speakers are Acoustique Quality Pontos 6 with Pontos W Subwoofer

Agreed. I am not here to promote things one way or the other. But I am curious what's all the hate for DSD, why people have to sound like DSDs are their foes that had done something bad to you before and PCMs are their allied best friends...

If you already have a capable PC, again you are only a few clicks away from giving it a try to see if it is only a matter of your DAC LED light changed and nothing else or perhaps you may come to prefer it (either for sound reason OR simply the LED light color maybe preferable to you)

And it would be totally okay to share with us, you have tried it, makes absolutely no difference to you.

 

[Gerardo61]

Depending on the implementation some of the akm 4499 dacs can support direct dsd in 128 and 256 according to Jussi

Yes the old akm4499 support dsd direct. The newer 4499ex does not support so the 4493

 

[voodooless]

Yes the old akm4499 support dsd direct. The newer 4499ex does not support so the 4493

Yes it does:

You’ll just have to look at the right chip, so AK4191, not AL4499EX.

 

[Ze Frog]

DSD 1024! Lol, it's getting ridiculous now, and it already was really. Just no need for it, it's just numbers for marketing. I seriously would just get any well engineered DAC reviewed by Amir on here within your budget and then stick with it. We are at the point now where no matter how great the number becomes, how many DAC chips, whichever brand really as at the level of insignificance. DAC's are so good now that unless a new streaming protocol or something takes over in future you could run one for years and years with no need to upgrade beyond the itch.

 

[dlovesmusic]

According to Jussi on the Gustard A26,
"In non-direct mode AK4191 converts DSD to it's internal presentation and converts the sample rate to the one AK4499EX is set to run (either 5.6M or 11.3M). This way it can do DSD1024, etc.

In direct mode this cannot happen, thus only DSD128 or DSD256 can be played in direct mode.

AK4191 supports direct from DSD64 to DSD512. But AK4499EX only at DSD128 or DSD256. With DSD512 input the result is kind of non-direct path.

If you want to use A26 correctly in direct mode, set filter to "wide" and always use 44.1k x256 (or 44.1k x128) fixed output rate. Anything else will give you something strange."

I don't own any AKM dacs at the moment so I did not inquire further on this.

 

[dlovesmusic]

Yes, I do agree people chasing after the highest sampling rates in DSD thinking the higher must be better (no it is not) are no different than people chasing after the highest SINAD at the chart thinking SINAD at 121.3db must be better than 120.9db...

 

[Gerardo61]

According to Jussi on the Gustard A26,
"In non-direct mode AK4191 converts DSD to it's internal presentation and converts the sample rate to the one AK4499EX is set to run (either 5.6M or 11.3M). This way it can do DSD1024, etc.

In direct mode this cannot happen, thus only DSD128 or DSD256 can be played in direct mode.

AK4191 supports direct from DSD64 to DSD512. But AK4499EX only at DSD128 or DSD256. With DSD512 input the result is kind of non-direct path.

If you want to use A26 correctly in direct mode, set filter to "wide" and always use 44.1k x256 (or 44.1k x128) fixed output rate. Anything else will give you something strange."

I don't own any AKM dacs at the moment so I did not inquire further on this.

I own Topping E30II with 2 x AKM4439s but it seems can not work in direct dsd mode.
Do you have any suggestion?
Many thanks
Gerardo

 

[Lupin]

Actually no because the upsampling is done by HQPlayer Server on the PC so files 16/44.1 or higher are upsampled to DSD128,256,512 or PCM up to 1536 KHz. So you don't need any more space than the native files.

All you need to do is pay €300 for a HQPlayer licence... expensive placebo I would say.

All you need is a powerful PC. Personally I use an I5 12400 with 16 Gb DDR4 and I upsample up to DSD 512 without problems.

So besides the initial €300 you also get a high electricity bill as bonus for something doesn't really do anything... double pass

 

[dlovesmusic]

All you need to do is pay €300 for a HQPlayer licence... expensive placebo I would say.


So besides the initial €300 you also get a high electricity bill as bonus for something doesn't really do anything... double pass

Nope, it’s free for anyone to try. I know ppl not willing to pay for the license been using the trial version for years.

Nope re electric bill either, my rpi5 that uses 27w can run up to dsd256

I honestly am not sure there’s any reason not to try it

 

[Gerardo61]

So besides the initial €300 you also get a high electricity bill as bonus for something doesn't really do anything... double pass

no costs for electricity because I have a photovoltaic system

All you need to do is pay €300 for a HQPlayer licence... expensive placebo I would say.

there is no greater deaf person than he who does not want to hear ... Italian proverb ;-)

 

[bungle]

All you need to do is pay €300 for a HQPlayer licence... expensive placebo I would say.

Image/video upsampling I kinda understand as that usually works the best when algorithm or AI or whatever tries to fill in ”missing” pieces (aka modify the original). But with audio upsampling, people usually emphasise that the idea is not to modify the original. So it does not seem to add anything, just a different format (same as converting PNG to BMP, I am assuming DSD to PCM and vice versa is lossless or close to it). Then someone argues that it is best to feed DAC or something in its native format so that we can skip some processing and do this conversion somehow better than the DAC itself. Feels like somekind of voodoo.

 

[Timcognito]

I'm happy with Red Book but thanks to @MarnixM, Sound Liason and this post https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/simple-recordings.53347/post-1928942, I found, and you can try all these file formats from one master and see what you think, FOR FREE. Maybe have someone else randomly play them back to your best headphones after cleaning your ears and yawning.

Compare Formats - Free Downloads

Award-winning audiophile high-resolution studio masters; depth placement exceptional sound stage. A music download shop supporting audio files in 768kHz, 352kHz (DXD), 192kHz and 96kHz. Also FLAC and DSD format is supported. Five star rating reviews. Free hi-res download samples in all formats...

soundliaison.com

 

[dlovesmusic]

There are many other features/flexibiity than just upsampling and modulation in hqplayer that makes it worth the 300 price tag

That of course would be a separate topic for discussion.

Again the program itself is free to try it for yourself to see if you like it. I know a few folks who are not willing to pay for the license and been using the trial version for years but they like the sound quality and could not go back to using other playback apps.

 

[voodooless]

But I am curious what's all the hate for DSD, why people have to sound like DSDs are their foes that had done something bad to you before and PCMs are their allied best friends...

Because nobody has ever proven any objective audible improvement over PCM. It’s like audio homeopathy.