Is there a "best choice" among pre/pro units under $3,000?

[enricoclaudio]

Does Denon have a processor with XLR out? I prefer balanced connections because part of my surround setup consists of active speakers. Don't want a 15m single ended connection...

They do not. You have to jump into Marantz wagon to get XLR outs with either the AV7706 or their flagship, AV8805A.

 

[Koeitje]

They do not. You have to jump into Marantz wagon to get XLR outs with either the AV7706 or their flagship, AV8805A.

Too bad, also because it has so many useless connections on it.

 

[Phaelon56]

I am thinking that I don't need real balanced outputs because my subs will be on cable runs of 20 feet or less.

Question: is there a reason to not get the x3700H other than it being last year's model? It has premap outs and can support 11.2. The 105 watts per channel is lenty for me, as I will be using the internal amps only for the four Atmos celign speakers.

 

[Phaelon56]

I am thinking that I don't need real balanced outputs because my subs will be on cable runs of 20 feet or less.

Question: is there a reason to not get the x3700H other than it being last year's model? It has premap outs and can support 11.2. The 105 watts per channel is lenty for me, as I will be using the internal amps only for the four Atmos celign speakers.

I think I just answered my own question. Apparently the X3700H had issues with HDMI 2.1, and Denon's "solution" was to ship people an external box that performs the necessary function. Not cool.

 

[enricoclaudio]

I am thinking that I don't need real balanced outputs because my subs will be on cable runs of 20 feet or less.

Question: is there a reason to not get the x3700H other than it being last year's model? It has premap outs and can support 11.2. The 105 watts per channel is lenty for me, as I will be using the internal amps only for the four Atmos celign speakers.

X3700H, X4700H and X6700H are all 2020 models. There would be no new models on 2021, only the fix for the 2.1 HDMI Boards. I'm very happy with my X6700H. Has been reliable and good sounding.

 

[enricoclaudio]

I think I just answered my own question. Apparently the X3700H had issues with HDMI 2.1, and Denon's "solution" was to ship people an external box that performs the necessary function. Not cool.

Yep, I got the box but I don't need it to be honest. My living room TV does not support 120Hz frame rate (Sony 77A9G OLED) and also I don't have neither PS5 nor XBOX Consoles. I have a Nintendo Switch OLED on Pre Order and that's all my gaming. If you don't need 4K @ 120Hz, then you are totally fine.

 

[theBruce]

The only thing I wish to say is-I had a Denon 3700, used it in preamp mode with a Outlaw 7000X amp, I thought it sounded great, found a great deal on a Yamaha CX-A5100 for $500, it runs circles around the Denon, I always use the final battle of Avengers Endgame for testing, I noticed sounds I never heard before ( and I did watch it right before with the Denon), better separation in the speakers, a lot more clear sound, it just sounded so much better.

 

[wseroyer]

To elaborate on this, Denon receivers support 2 speaker configuration presets. The presets save and contain all speaker settings and individual Audyssey profiles. You can switch between them with the push of a button. In my media room, I have:

Preset 1: Movies: Front LR amps off, all other amps on, 7 speakers with 2 subs configured with Audyssey
Preset 2: Music: All amps off (preamp mode), 2 speakers with 2 subs configured with Audyssey

The front LR are always powered by a Nova 300.

I use the AVR's amps for center and surround duties in preset 1 for movies and TV.

The AVR is at its cleanest in preset 2, when I need it to be. Since you have 5 channels of external amplification, you can do the same thing for your 5.1 setup.

We talk about SOTA engineering on this forum, but some level below that is acceptable to human hearing in a typical domestic environment. I can't put a number on that, but I find Denon AVRs to be at least as good as my hearing. I have a Schiit Modius with 113dB SINAD sitting next to the AVR, which allows me to bypass the AVR and use a laptop to feed Dirac processed music directly into the Nova 300. The only difference I can hear (with subs turned off) is the difference between Audyssey and Dirac. One does not sound better than the other to me from a hardware perspective.

I think what people love about Dirac is it's sub correction, I feel Audyssey does a pretty good job, but I limit it to 300hz as per the suggestion of Mathew Poes at Audioholics.

 

[wseroyer]

I think I just answered my own question. Apparently the X3700H had issues with HDMI 2.1, and Denon's "solution" was to ship people an external box that performs the necessary function. Not cool.

They fixed the HDMI 2.1 issure on later production models, I just got a 4700 two weeks ago and when I went online to get the converter box it said I didn't need it for my models serial number.

 

[wseroyer]

Does Denon have a processor with XLR out? I prefer balanced connections because part of my surround setup consists of active speakers. Don't want a 15m single ended connection...

No, only Marantz, but they aren't truly balanced internally, so it's just the XLR connector that's different.

 

[wseroyer]

I am thinking that I don't need real balanced outputs because my subs will be on cable runs of 20 feet or less.

Question: is there a reason to not get the x3700H other than it being last year's model? It has premap outs and can support 11.2. The 105 watts per channel is lenty for me, as I will be using the internal amps only for the four Atmos celign speakers.

I had a 3700 on order, but I decided to step up to the 4700 because of Auro 3D I felt it was worth it, but I mostly use my AVR for gaming, so it might be a different use case for you. The Auro 3D upmixer is by far the best upmixer in my opinion, DTS:X is next followed by Dolby DSU.

 

[Steve Dallas]

I think what people love about Dirac is it's sub correction, I feel Audyssey does a pretty good job, but I limit it to 300hz as per the suggestion of Mathew Poes at Audioholics.

Your individual room dictates what frequency you should choose as the limit. My setup measures best at 4x the Schroeder frequency, which is around 1100Hz. Measuring and re-measuring during setup is key.

 

[AlexanderM]

I realize this is subjective (to a certain extent,) but is there any AV pre/pro unit under $4K list price that has been favorably reviewed here? (note: I am looking for a used unit in the $1500 to $1800 range.) I've looked at the reviews for Marantz AV8802 and Anthem AVM60, as well as a few models of Denon. Based on Amir's measurements and assessments, they all seem to have major shortcomings. I am on a defined budget. Already have a 7x125 channel power amp, and will pick up a 4 channel amp for the Atmos ceiling speakers. Plan B is to get an 11.2 capable AVR, to use as a processor and use its internal amps to power the extra four speakers. Note: not doing the buildout until November - unsure where the subs will go - might want balanced connections in case one has towards rear of the room.
I KNOW I will have to make compromises... just want to get the most for my money.

Ok, so I'm not saying this is the best choice or the way to go, just have you seen this? It costs about $3500 in Canada.

https://www.onkyousa.com/product/tx-rz3100/

 

[enricoclaudio]

I think what people love about Dirac is it's sub correction, I feel Audyssey does a pretty good job, but I limit it to 300hz as per the suggestion of Mathew Poes at Audioholics.

Nothing better than a miniDSP 2x4 HD to time align and EQ subwoofers. Even when I had Dirac Live, I was using the miniDSP 2x4 HD between the processor and subwoofers. I always get much better results with the miniDSP in the chain.

 

[theseus]

Preset 1: Movies: Front LR amps off, all other amps on, 7 speakers with 2 subs configured with Audyssey
Preset 2: Music: All amps off (preamp mode), 2 speakers with 2 subs configured with Audyssey

The front LR are always powered by a Nova 300.

I use the AVR's amps for center and surround duties in preset 1 for movies and TV.

Hi Steve, I know I'm late but just hope you can share your experience with me. I'm having a similar settings as you do.

• Preset 1: All 5 floor speakers are powered with ext amps through pre-out and the 4 in-ceiling atmos speakers are power by my X4700H; Amp assignment is 11.1 with front LR set to Pre-out
• Preset 2: Only using the 5 floor speakers for music (of course, the 4 in-ceiling are still connected to the X4700H internal amps); Amp assignment is pre-amp with height speakers setting to none

I noticed a soft/quiet pop when turning on/off my X4700H in preset 2. In preset 1, it's totally silent with no turning on/off pop. I'm reasonable sure the pop is coming from the 4 in-ceiling speakers which are connected to the internal amps. This is puzzling me since I believe if there is a turning on/off pop that should happen in my preset 1 but I have no pop in my preset 1. It only happens in my preset 2.

Do you have any turning on/off pop/thump in either of your presets?

 

[Steve Dallas]

Hi Steve, I know I'm late but just hope you can share your experience with me. I'm having a similar settings as you do.

• Preset 1: All 5 floor speakers are powered with ext amps through pre-out and the 4 in-ceiling atmos speakers are power by my X4700H; Amp assignment is 11.1 with front LR set to Pre-out
• Preset 2: Only using the 5 floor speakers for music (of course, the 4 in-ceiling are still connected to the X4700H internal amps); Amp assignment is pre-amp with height speakers setting to none

I noticed a soft/quiet pop when turning on/off my X4700H in preset 2. In preset 1, it's totally silent with no turning on/off pop. I'm reasonable sure the pop is coming from the 4 in-ceiling speakers which are connected to the internal amps. This is puzzling me since I believe if there is a turning on/off pop that should happen in my preset 1 but I have no pop in my preset 1. It only happens in my preset 2.

Do you have any turning on/off pop/thump in either of your presets?

I do not have any pops or thumps at any time. I do not run ceiling speakers, though. Only 7.2 or 2.2. I have considered installing some in-ceiling speakers, since the amp channels are there, but I am not convinced it will be worth the money.

 

[enricoclaudio]

I just replaced a Denon X6500H that is on the way to Denon for repair under warranty, with a Denon X4700H setup in pre amp mode and I get zero pops. I driving my 9 speakers with Emotiva BasX A series amps. I used to get the pop with the X6500H, though. I also have a X6700H in my main system setup in pre amp mode and no pops as well.

 

[theseus]

I do not have any pops or thumps at any time.

Thanks for the reply Steve. That give me a hope to continue to try some settings to eliminate my pops.

I driving my 9 speakers with Emotiva BasX A series amps.

I wish that I have 4 more amps to drive my in-ceiling speakers then I'm confident I would not get any pop.

 

[theseus]

I got an Onkyo TX-NR801 on CL really cheap. Using the 801's 4 channels of its 7 amps with multi ch in and pure audio mode for my 4 in-ceiling speakers there is no more turning on/off pop .

 

[AlexanderM]

Shows out of stock, might find one by looking around, has 11.2 channel processing, all the new tech such as 2.1 and Dirac, in your price range. Have you already made a purchase?

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