Is the Romance of High Fidelity Audio Today Dead?

[MattHooper]

I think this is what is pulling people back into analog sources, especially records. There is a lot of fiddling around required to get good results, and you feel like the result depends on your efforts, because it does! When you hear a nice quiet record played on a nice system that you put together with pieces and parts from all over, there is a different kind of satisfaction and it is a different kind of experience.

With digital sources, it is so hard to get it wrong, that assuming you aren't dealing with huge spaces or weird conditions, whatever you buy is likely good enough. Competence has become quite cheap and nearly ubiquitous in the solid state world.

Cheap competence isn't romantic. If the thrill is in the pursuit, there isn't much thrill.

Very well put!

I've had a Benchmark DAC 1 in my system "forever." In the audiophile-world sense, it doesn't give me anything to do. It just sits there working perfectly. A number of years ago I got the "itch" and was also thinking of slightly re-arranging my sources and bought the newer Benchmark DAC 2L. But it never ended up in my system because...well...the DAC1 works just fine. Transparently. Which is all I ask of a DAC.

Digital audio to me is a commodity, a mature technology and in that sense "boring." There is, for me, no interest in discussions of what sonic improvements are brought in new DACs because they hit the diminishing returns so hard quite a while ago. The more interesting things happening in digital are signal manipulation - e.g. room correction. (And as I work in digital sound, I use tons of plug-ins to manipulate sound...anything new in those areas are of interest).

All that said as for the death of the "Hobby" aspects due to the commoditization of digital and solid state technology: I don't quite think so.
Audiophiles will always find ways of expressing their desire to tweak. All you have to do is peek at any number of sites devoted to audiophiles discussing digital technology, e.g. computer audiophile, and it's an endless panorama of tweaking...because as ever people can imagine hearing differences. So saying "The maturity of hi fi gear technology is the death knell for hobbyist tweaking" is similarity wrong to "The advances in scientific medicine is the death knell for alternative medicine." For many reasons people continue to be attracted to the alternative methodologies, hence they won't necessarily share the same conclusions. (To be clear: I do not grant alternative medicine legitimacy, just as I don't grant a purely subjective audiophile paradigm legitimacy).

Also: there's the other issue that, even if people are on the same page about the facts at hand (e.g. how X or Y product performs in terms of distortion/accuracy) not everyone has the goal of commodity-level accuracy, so there will remain a marketplace/hobby for those who like to tweak (just as there are still those who like old cars etc).

 

[watchnerd]

Did you ever find that audio analyzer you were looking for? Might not need an AP to effectively measure Vintage stuff.
I should figure out how to use this AQ401 I've had on the list to play with.

I've postponed it for now because the Perl script from @JPJ is perfectly suitable for cartridge response curves from frequency sweeps, and other use cases are on hold for the time being.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Ditto.

Streaming doesn't give me anything to do.

It's almost a Marxian "alienation of the worker"-like phenomenon.

I also agree with his comments in the article about tactile feedback, which is something that keeps drawing me back to retro-type electronics.

I get the joy of tactile feedback from a well made bit of gear. OTOH, I remember how futuristic is seemed when we had on screen displays that could do so much. It was like Star Trek come to life with everything working like I was on the bridge of the Enterprise. Even more so when some of these softwares can be controlled by my phone. And that skips over living thru the hair-shirted audio period when no self-respecting serious audiophile would truck with remote control on anything. When that fashion faded and everything had remote control that sure was nice. But it was the first step to switching things around too often, and not sitting down to listen to a whole piece of music with intense interest and concentration.

 

[BDWoody]

When that fashion faded and everything had remote control that sure was nice. But it was the first step to switching things around too often, and not sitting down to listen to a whole piece of music with intense interest and concentration.

No remote, and no tone controls! Another level of removal from the sound. Take what you're given and like it! No seasoning allowed!
Made it easier to build I guess, without needing to deal with all those expensive dials and knobs.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The Audio Research SP6 was the first I saw without tone controls. The earlier SP3 had them. Curiously it had a switch for mono, switching channels left and right.

And the first one I owned without tone controls. The C-J PV-5.

 

[Thomas savage]

Ditto.

Streaming doesn't give me anything to do.

It's almost a Marxian "alienation of the worker"-like phenomenon.

I also agree with his comments in the article about tactile feedback, which is something that keeps drawing me back to retro-type electronics.

I think back as far as 2010 one could see vinyl and streaming were going to be the two audio outlets .

Its kinda obvious, the art work and tactile authenticity of vinyl works on its own yes but also in unison to streaming. Both contrast and compliment each other.

Personally I'd let you keep the records but I'd love to pull out ( too late she cried ) the sleeve and enjoy the art and notes while streaming the actual music , and no on a screen isn't satisfactory.

 

[Slobmw]

Interesting thread... the evolution of a technology from _needing_ hands-on, constant fiddling to work to just commodity level stuff that anybody can use is amazingly cool to see, and frees us up to do new things. So while my main system is likely delivering as good as I can hear, I cobbled together an active three way set of speakers with digital crossovers. It's fun to purposefully dial in a flawed response and compare. Would have been beyond my ability/budget back in the day.

 

[Robin L]

I lost that lovin' feelin' a long time ago, but the wooden stake through the heart of the vampire that was sucking up my money came when I decided to have a little side business transferring various analog media to digital formats, turning the LPs of others into CDs or files on flash drives. The primal myth I bought into was that LPs would be a better source for an album than its CD equivalent on account of it being the first thoughts of the mix realized by people who were in the room with the performers when it happened. The sort of thing one would read about at the Hoffman Forum.

How naïve.

To start, I didn't realize how big a factor inherent inner groove distortion was in the sound of an LP, or 45 or 78. The other was facing how fragile and prone to damage those formats are. All that gaslight glowing on the "romance" of the path of the audiophile was just that, gaslight, getting dimmer every time I replayed that already worn LP. This made me think of all those other factors that seemed like so much fun, offering so many choices, seemingly. I was always looking for vintage bargains at thrift stores and eventually ended up with a lot of stuff that didn't sound very good, took up space and [in many cases] had to be thrown out because nobody wanted it.

I was making transfers of somebody's favorite record they bought 50 years ago, with a predictable pattern of wear and distortion. Not as bad, but similarly flawed, were old cassette transfers of LPs, with the high frequencies sawed off from the limitations of the cassette decks they were recorded on, and distortion on the peaks from a combination of the limits of the LPs and cassette decks overloading. Even worse were funky homemade recordings, some being 78 recordings where the groove starts in the deadwax and ends on what usually was the lead-in groove.

All the talk of the rituals of playing back LPs, claiming that somehow playing an LP side required more focus and attention on the concept of "The Album" as a singular artistic entity really meant that the media determined the final artistic result. With Classical music, where the composer would determine the final shape of the resultant art, the limitations of the LP as an artistic entity were exposed; the climaxes of compositions were always situated in the exact spot on the LP where it would be the most distorted.

The era of "Romance" in audio-land was a time when there was aspiration towards better sound via a format that guaranteed compromise. Components sounded so much different from one another compared to today because designers and producers of audio gear were not as informed as the folks making audio gear now. Back then, the effects of the room on overall sound quality were not taken into consideration. Back then, designers were not using computers to assist in the designs of speakers, there was a lot of guesswork in the designs of speakers. Back then, amplifiers were low in power and high in distortion. This romance in nostalgia for yesterday's toys is in large part just nostalgia.

If you really want to tweak with sound, learn an instrument, learn a few songs, join an amateur music ensemble, focus on the making of the music. Plenty to tweak with, the potential for improvement is infinite. All audio gear has built-in limitations, human hearing has built-in limitations. One of the things that makes modern gear better than old is how the new gear is more likely to take those limitations into consideration. Modern headphones sound better than "classic" headphones, in part because these limitations are factored into their designs. It's true that streaming undermines the notion of "collecting music" because nearly everything is accessible without taking up any space [leaving more room for dreadnoughts and such]. But if it's the music that's of real interest and not the object, then the advantage goes to streaming.

I'm not nostalgic. Audio sounds better these days.

 

[AnalogSteph]

If the automotive hobby were like the audiophile hobby, people would be trying to sell you a brand new vehicle with points ignition and carb as the greatest thing since sliced bread. It was about time that the crazy got dialed back a bit. (Nothing wrong with points and carbs per se - I mean, who doesn't like a Mustie1 video? - but would you want them on a reliable daily driver?)

Anyway, I think it's a very good thing that audio playback quality at the budget end (whether used or new) has improved considerably, giving many more young people a chance to experience good sound while their hearing is still reasonably intact and music is most important to them.

 

[StefaanE]

I think back as far as 2010 one could see vinyl and streaming were going to be the to audio outlets .

Its kinda obvious, the art work and tactile authenticity of vinyl works on its own yes but also in unison to streaming. Both consist and compliment each other.

Thomas, that might be a case of 2020 hindsight .

Vinyl and polycarbonate are both niche-markets. The type of people who bought portable record players, boomboxes, Walkmen (or should it be Walkpeople?) and iPods are now using their smartphones to listen to music. They aren't interested in a the correspondence between the original and the reproduction, but by the emotions linked to the music. People with affection for (their idea of) the past will gravitate towards vinyl, and people with an interest in the artsy side will buy luxury editions like those made by the Berliner Philharmoniker (and they cater for all tastes, from vinyl to hi-res).
I asked my 18-year old and she’s happy with the sound from her OnePlus. A friend of hers bought a record player in early 2020, because it was trending. Apparently, the trend has now gone the way of the dodo. She hears and appreciates the better quality of my speakers, but wouldn’t spend money on better audio gear.

 

[JeffS7444]

I've postponed it for now because the Perl script from @JPJ is perfectly suitable for cartridge response curves from frequency sweeps, and other use cases are on hold for the time being.

What flavor of Python did you install to make it work? I tried it but think I must be missing some libraries.

 

[BDWoody]

...A friend of hers bought a record player in early 2020, because it was trending. Apparently, the trend has now gone the way of the dodo.

I dunno...I haven't seen the prices of records going down.

https://www.statista.com/chart/7699/lp-sales-in-the-united-states/

Continuing one of the more surprising comebacks of the digital age, vinyl album sales in the United States have grown for the 15th consecutive year. In 2020, 27.5 million LPs were sold in the United States, up 46 percent compared to 2019 and more than 30-fold compared to 2006 when the vinyl comeback began.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/14/vin...ell-cds-and-prices-have-risen-490percent.html

 

[watchnerd]

What flavor of Python did you install to make it work? I tried it but think I must be missing some libraries.

Anaconda

But I already had libraries installed via brew.

 

[Doodski]

What does a record/LP cost these day?

 

[Robin L]

What does a record/LP cost these day?

Last I looked, $20-ish new, unless you're seeking some "audiophile" flavor. Used is all over the map.

 

[BDWoody]

What does a record/LP cost these day?

Used is all over the map.

You got that right.

Depends on everything... I was just finishing the unpacking and discogs entry of a box of about 50 records I bought maybe a year ago for $25. Turns out, some old Juan de la Cruz albums are surisingly valuable!

This was the first of about 6 Filipino Jazz albums, that I'd never heard of, that are clearly desirable 'out there.'


Juan De La Cruz* - Himig Natin

https://www.discogs.com/Juan-De-La-Cruz-Himig-Natin/release/3786955

 

[watchnerd]

You got that right.

Depends on everything... I was just finishing the unpacking and discogs entry of a box of about 50 records I bought maybe a year ago for $25. Turns out, some old Juan de la Cruz albums are surisingly valuable!

This was the first of about 6 Filipino Jazz albums, that I'd never heard of, that are clearly desirable 'out there.'

Yeah, I've got about 50 albums that Discogs says are worth over $200/each.

Biggest increase in price paid new vs what it's worth now that I own is probably this:

https://www.discogs.com/Miles-Davis-Bitches-Brew/release/5804415

 

[BDWoody]

Yeah, I've got about 50 albums that Discogs says are worth over $200/each.

Biggest increase in price paid new vs what it's worth now that I own is probably this:

https://www.discogs.com/Miles-Davis-Bitches-Brew/release/5804415

I was surprised how many of mine are worth more than I thought.

Here is another from that same box. Both (all of them really) are in great condition. I don't expect many more boxes like that one.

Juan De La Cruz Band - Maskara

Url: https://www.discogs.com/Juan-De-La-Cruz-Band-Maskara/release/4261977

 

[raistlin65]

I think the tradeoff for less "romance," is less obsession about improving sound, and obsession is an anxiety. So perhaps it's actually mentally healthier

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

HiFi has become like stamp collecting; a few passionate followers but the concept is overwhelmingly foreign to current casual listeners. Even the concept of 'stereo' is optional, and you'd be hard pressed to pick some kid off the street who could even describe what it is. Honestly, I'm surprised the hobby has held on as long as it has, but then again I'm surprised that rock music has held on as long as it has. That's OK though, some stamps are interesting.....