Is the entire audio industry a fraud?

[tonycollinet]

Spot on, my old co worker used to love doing the screw driver across the speaker terminals test to show how well designed the McIntosh amps were that we serviced.

So what do you want?

Have you changed your mind from minimally engineered to properly engineered?

 

[egellings]

Unicorns and flooby dust, is how I understand it.

...and a golden drop of Retsyn!

 

[Tedkaz]

I always in the end let my ears decide and than my budget.

 

[Jmudrick]

From new Stereophile:

"I'd hardly settled into my chair when he (Ted Denny, Synergistic Research) demonstrated the effect of his $1500 "Vibratron," a roughly six-feet-tall metal rod with two baseball-sized spheres, one gold-plated (for warmer sound), one silver (for brighter sound; mix and match to taste). They're resonators that Denney modeled after "forgotten Greek and Roman technology." To hear him tell it, the ancients knew how to use rounded vessels to improve room acoustics and intelligibility.

Next, we were on to the benefits of his MiG SX bidirectional equipment footers, $995 for a set of three, which you can install pointing up or down according to the sound signature you prefer. The MiGs are claimed to "improve nearly every aspect of system performance," starting with a "denser soundfield." I could hear the difference, couldn't I?I told my host I thought I did, but that I wasn't committing to a final opinion."

I always liked Von Schweikert speakers, the association with Synergistic is unfortunate. "No Ted I don't hear it" would have been a better response.

Wasn't the Vibatron featured in Woody Allen's "Sleeper"?.

Von Schweikert Audio, VAC, Synergistic Research, and Scott Walker Audio

On the third and last day of the Florida Audio Expo, I realized I hadn't listened to Von Schweikert speakers in donkey's years. With only 35 minutes to spare till closing time, I made my way to the third-floor room where, according to the show literature, I should hear a pair of Von Schweikert...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Ken1951]

Unicorns and flooby dust, is how I understand it.

Swish and Flick!

 

[tonycollinet]

Wasn't the Vibatron featured in Woody Allen's "Sleeper"?.

I thought that was an orgasmatron. But it might have vibrated

 

[Ken1951]

From new Stereophile:

"I'd hardly settled into my chair when he (Ted Denny, Synergistic Research) demonstrated the effect of his $1500 "Vibratron," a roughly six-feet-tall metal rod with two baseball-sized spheres, one gold-plated (for warmer sound), one silver (for brighter sound; mix and match to taste). They're resonators that Denney modeled after "forgotten Greek and Roman technology." To hear him tell it, the ancients knew how to use rounded vessels to improve room acoustics and intelligibility.

Next, we were on to the benefits of his MiG SX bidirectional equipment footers, $995 for a set of three, which you can install pointing up or down according to the sound signature you prefer. The MiGs are claimed to "improve nearly every aspect of system performance," starting with a "denser soundfield." I could hear the difference, couldn't I?I told my host I thought I did, but that I wasn't committing to a final opinion."

I always liked Von Schweikert speakers, the association with Synergistic is unfortunate. "No Ted I don't hear it" would have been a better response.

Wasn't the Vibatron featured in Woody Allen's "Sleeper"?.

Von Schweikert Audio, VAC, Synergistic Research, and Scott Walker Audio

On the third and last day of the Florida Audio Expo, I realized I hadn't listened to Von Schweikert speakers in donkey's years. With only 35 minutes to spare till closing time, I made my way to the third-floor room where, according to the show literature, I should hear a pair of Von Schweikert...

www.stereophile.com

If can appropriate a phrase from our good friends across the pond: "This guy just has to be taking the piss."

 

[egellings]

I thought that was an orgasmatron. But it might have vibrated

The look on Woody Allen's face when he came out of that thing after a session was priceless.

 

[tonycollinet]

... from our good friends across the pond:,,,,

You're welcome.

 

[atmasphere]

Minimally engineered (or as I prefer to call it, badly engineered) amplifiers lack unconditional stability, short circuit and other protection, and whilst may operate OK under controlled circumstances, are flaky and unreliable. Properly engineered amplifiers will stand reasonable abuse and be long-term reliable.
Sadly certain 'boutique' manufacturers make a feature of how fussy their Amps are to create a mystique to cover the lack of proper engineering.

S

We're getting into the weeds, but just so you know an amplifier can be both minimalist and reliable. But 'minimally engineered' is a different thing

 

[mhardy6647]

I thought that was an orgasmatron. But it might have vibrated

They... umm... go together.


Thanks, I'll see myself out.

 

[kevinh]

I don’t see the hifi industry any more of a fraud than any other. Sure plenty of dirtbags, but that’s 10% of the population in general. And as far as adding some credibility back to reviewers, we are back to that 10% again. Also , applying exacting science to something subjective is a fraud in itself.

Yes you can and some people who are very good at designing electronics use the science to support their biases in music reproduction. Nelson Pass is an example as opposed to creating a straight wire with gain, he uses no/little negative feedback to build amps with a distortion profile his customer base will like.
What is fraud are devices that purport to use fabricated science to solve problems that don't exist. Some of those devices have been reviewed here.

 

[Tedkaz]

Nelson is a perfect example of minimalist engineering, and it’s seems to be common knowledge that feedback loops to increase gain and hifi typically don’t mix. More so in Phono stages but in general as well.

 

[ahofer]

it’s seems to be common knowledge that feedback loops to increase gain and hifi typically don’t mix

<sigh> "common knowledge" that isn't.

 

[steve59]

Looking at the retail chain, I wonder if margins are different for anything? I remember after B2 deregulation and all manufacture for everything went overseas I kept waiting for prices to come down, but margins just went up, consumers saved nothing. we spent the same money for throw away products, not hifi exclusively, but everything.

hifi just follows a successful business model.

 

[fpitas]

Nelson is a perfect example of minimalist engineering, and it’s seems to be common knowledge that feedback loops to increase gain and hifi typically don’t mix. More so in Phono stages but in general as well.

Well, I'll agree that feedback loops to increase gain are a non-starter, with few exceptions.

BTW, Mr. Pass does indeed use feedback. My J2 has about 20dB of global feedback.

 

[JayGilb]

I don’t see the hifi industry any more of a fraud than any other. Sure plenty of dirtbags, but that’s 10% of the population in general. And as far as adding some credibility back to reviewers, we are back to that 10% again. Also , applying exacting science to something subjective is a fraud in itself.

Modern day fraudulence is proportional to the level of technological sophistication that any item is over the general population's understanding.

 

[fpitas]

Modern day fraudulence is proportional to the level of technological sophistication that any item is over the general population's understanding.

The modern illustration that a fool and his money are soon parted

 

[ZolaIII]

Another abomination:

$500 Audiophile SATA SSD Cable With Superstar Crystals Listed

Claimed to be the “best computer Hi-Fi cable ever built.”

www.tomshardware.com

 

[notsodeadlizard]

I've been on these forums for quite a while, and while I don't believe everything that is being said here, I'm constantly catching myself believing in the fraud.

Case and point - I spent well over $2000CAD on a Pre-amp (with >$500 on tubes for a Freya+) and a Denafrips Ares II, think that I will have an amazing setup with these two items. I've been listening to them for over a year now and I consider them to be great.

Lo and behold, I decided to buy a SMSL DO200, for around $399 in the last 11.11 sale, and plugged it in. Immediately, I heard a lot worse sound, lack of bass and something's wrong with my speakers. Thinking to myself ah ha! I’ve made the right purchase decisions.

I then realized I had wired the left and rights wrong, so I fixed it and what a surprise, everything returned. More deeper bass (if you see my other thread about lack of bass with my R11's), room shaking response, a sense of excitement that was sorely lacking in the Denafrips and Freya combo, and just a sheer sense of "speed". Drums felt like they hit me with force, whereas in the previous setup they were dulled a bit. Although we are talking 99.9 vs 99.8 difference. The price difference is almost $2500 vs $399.

The more and more I realize, maybe this industry is just a load of fraud? Even using my wife as a test, she likes the SMSL far better (her hearing range is far better than mine actually, she can hear things I cannot, like small high pitched sounds in the music here and there).

TL/DR - basically, I spent $$$ on equipment that did nothing but burn money, all replaced by a $399 DAC that does it all. I'm also using mono LA90's which are amazing as well.

My question is - is the rest of the audio industry just full of it?

So, you gave away your 2000+ dollars for a very questionable product from this company for example:

The DAC (which was especially expensive) is built at best by some amateurs unknown to anyone.
This DAC for some reason is made on some kind of discrete resistor ladder what is a purest snake oil.

Then you bought a DAC also made in China by an other unknown ultra small company.
But this DAC is not already made on a resistive matrix soldered from discrete resistors of shady quality, no.
This DAC is based on a chipset from an industry-respected manufacturer, ESS Technology.
This company is over 30 years old and has always specialized in audio.
ESS Technology' DAC chipset is so good that the DAC assembled according to the reference design (yes, this is a reference design, you can be sure) is IMPROPERLY BETTER than some homemade rattle with a resistor matrix.
And you have proved all this to yourself.

So the industry (ESS and TI) is doing well.
Just don't buy snake oil from scammers.