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Is the entire audio industry a fraud?

sergeauckland said:
Minimally engineered (or as I prefer to call it, badly engineered) amplifiers lack unconditional stability, short circuit and other protection, and whilst may operate OK under controlled circumstances, are flaky and unreliable. Properly engineered amplifiers will stand reasonable abuse and be long-term reliable.
Sadly certain 'boutique' manufacturers make a feature of how fussy their Amps are to create a mystique to cover the lack of proper engineering.

S
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We're getting into the weeds, but just so you know an amplifier can be both minimalist and reliable. But 'minimally engineered' is a different thing ;)
 
Tedkaz said:
I don’t see the hifi industry any more of a fraud than any other. Sure plenty of dirtbags, but that’s 10% of the population in general. And as far as adding some credibility back to reviewers, we are back to that 10% again. Also , applying exacting science to something subjective is a fraud in itself.
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Yes you can and some people who are very good at designing electronics use the science to support their biases in music reproduction. Nelson Pass is an example as opposed to creating a straight wire with gain, he uses no/little negative feedback to build amps with a distortion profile his customer base will like.
What is fraud are devices that purport to use fabricated science to solve problems that don't exist. Some of those devices have been reviewed here.
 
Nelson is a perfect example of minimalist engineering, and it’s seems to be common knowledge that feedback loops to increase gain and hifi typically don’t mix. More so in Phono stages but in general as well.
 
Looking at the retail chain, I wonder if margins are different for anything? I remember after B2 deregulation and all manufacture for everything went overseas I kept waiting for prices to come down, but margins just went up, consumers saved nothing. we spent the same money for throw away products, not hifi exclusively, but everything.

hifi just follows a successful business model.
 
Tedkaz said:
Nelson is a perfect example of minimalist engineering, and it’s seems to be common knowledge that feedback loops to increase gain and hifi typically don’t mix. More so in Phono stages but in general as well.
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Well, I'll agree that feedback loops to increase gain are a non-starter, with few exceptions.

BTW, Mr. Pass does indeed use feedback. My J2 has about 20dB of global feedback.
 
Tedkaz said:
I don’t see the hifi industry any more of a fraud than any other. Sure plenty of dirtbags, but that’s 10% of the population in general. And as far as adding some credibility back to reviewers, we are back to that 10% again. Also , applying exacting science to something subjective is a fraud in itself.
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Modern day fraudulence is proportional to the level of technological sophistication that any item is over the general population's understanding.
 
JayGilb said:
Modern day fraudulence is proportional to the level of technological sophistication that any item is over the general population's understanding.
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The modern illustration that a fool and his money are soon parted
 
simplywyn said:
I've been on these forums for quite a while, and while I don't believe everything that is being said here, I'm constantly catching myself believing in the fraud.

Case and point - I spent well over $2000CAD on a Pre-amp (with >$500 on tubes for a Freya+) and a Denafrips Ares II, think that I will have an amazing setup with these two items. I've been listening to them for over a year now and I consider them to be great.

Lo and behold, I decided to buy a SMSL DO200, for around $399 in the last 11.11 sale, and plugged it in. Immediately, I heard a lot worse sound, lack of bass and something's wrong with my speakers. Thinking to myself ah ha! I’ve made the right purchase decisions.

I then realized I had wired the left and rights wrong, so I fixed it and what a surprise, everything returned. More deeper bass (if you see my other thread about lack of bass with my R11's), room shaking response, a sense of excitement that was sorely lacking in the Denafrips and Freya combo, and just a sheer sense of "speed". Drums felt like they hit me with force, whereas in the previous setup they were dulled a bit. Although we are talking 99.9 vs 99.8 difference. The price difference is almost $2500 vs $399.

The more and more I realize, maybe this industry is just a load of fraud? Even using my wife as a test, she likes the SMSL far better (her hearing range is far better than mine actually, she can hear things I cannot, like small high pitched sounds in the music here and there).

TL/DR - basically, I spent $$$ on equipment that did nothing but burn money, all replaced by a $399 DAC that does it all. I'm also using mono LA90's which are amazing as well.

My question is - is the rest of the audio industry just full of it?
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So, you gave away your 2000+ dollars for a very questionable product from this company for example:

Screenshot_20230221_200952.png


The DAC (which was especially expensive) is built at best by some amateurs unknown to anyone.
This DAC for some reason is made on some kind of discrete resistor ladder what is a purest snake oil.

Then you bought a DAC also made in China by an other unknown ultra small company.
But this DAC is not already made on a resistive matrix soldered from discrete resistors of shady quality, no.
This DAC is based on a chipset from an industry-respected manufacturer, ESS Technology.
This company is over 30 years old and has always specialized in audio.
ESS Technology' DAC chipset is so good that the DAC assembled according to the reference design (yes, this is a reference design, you can be sure) is IMPROPERLY BETTER than some homemade rattle with a resistor matrix.
And you have proved all this to yourself.

So the industry (ESS and TI) is doing well.
Just don't buy snake oil from scammers.
 
snake oil in moderation and on sale can provide temporary relief from most anything.
 
mhardy6647 said:
Yeah -- but one has to bear up through that long, agonizing break-in period before it does! ;)
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Your entire body has to acclimate to the large loss of money, I assume.
 
fpitas said:
Well, I'll agree that feedback loops to increase gain are a non-starter, with few exceptions.

BTW, Mr. Pass does indeed use feedback. My J2 has about 20dB of global feedback.
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Feedback, if negative, decreases gain of the amplifier. Positive feedback would increase the gain and the chance of instability. Bootstrapping a driver stage would be an example of that.
 
None of us is this kind of person: "But of course I'm not fooled by advertising, or taken in by it; nor am I subject to monkey see, monkey do behavior. Also, I have an unusually good common sense so that I am less fooled by bull shit, and less fooled by my own biases. Unlike a lot of people, I have good self-awareness and don't harbor unknown deep unconscious hidden motives."
 
No offense, but to some people here, yes. I believe there is more to good sound than measurements. Apparently, I like a bit of distortion. I find my Topping d90 a bit fatiguing on the ears.
 
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