Is Old Music Killing New Music?

[Mart68]

But yoots are supposed to rebel against the older generation.

That was back when each new generation was putting out music that was different from what went before. That model broke down some years ago now.

 

[Frgirard]

an old man has always been a young man.

The immense Pierre Desproge said "With age the ear is refined, the heart hardens"

 

[JaccoW]

But yoots are supposed to rebel against the older generation.

And just look at how annoyed some of them are by current music. XD

Someone recently pointed out Hyperpop/Glitchcore to me. Like an over the top version of pop, rap and synths mixed together. Not entirely my style, but at least you can dance to it. There is very little Rock that that allows for anything else than headbanging or jumping in a moshpit.

But then again there is also lots of popular music nowadays that is listened to ironically. ABBA and certain disco being one example.
And this guy:

Tip: Look up his "I'm a flamingo" performance.

And House music has indeed brought back lots of disco. You can argue that Daft Punk had lots of disco influences.

 

[JaccoW]

Oh No, is it disco zombies come back to life?
I thought we put a permanent end to that garbage back on July 12th, 1979
We offered the disco ducks a 0.10 cent beer night to bring all their disco LP's
to Cominsky Park so we could blow them up.
A real piece of musical history now. LOL

For some reason I don't think this was cute. I'm seeing a lot of people acting on hate and not just the musical kind.

Especially looking back how the rest of the 80's played out. It feels like an anti minority, gay and female movement by bigots and was already looked at like that at the time:

Rolling Stone critic Dave Marsh described Disco Demolition Night as "your most paranoid fantasy about where the ethnic cleansing of the rock radio could ultimately lead". Marsh was one who, at the time, deemed the event an expression of bigotry, writing in a year-end 1979 feature that "white males, eighteen to thirty-four are the most likely to see disco as the product of homosexuals, blacks, and Latins, and therefore they're the most likely to respond to appeals to wipe out such threats to their security. It goes almost without saying that such appeals are racist and sexist, but broadcasting has never been an especially civil-libertarian medium."

Nile Rodgers, producer and guitarist for the disco-era band Chic, likened the event to Nazi book burning. Gloria Gaynor, who had a huge disco hit with "I Will Survive", stated, "I've always believed it was an economic decision—an idea created by someone whose economic bottom line was being adversely affected by the popularity of disco music. So they got a mob mentality going." Harry Wayne Casey, singer for the disco act KC and the Sunshine Band, did not believe Disco Demolition Night was discriminatory and felt that Dahl was simply an "idiot".

University of East London professor Tim Lawrence wrote that the event was the culmination of the overproduction of disco, the investment by major record companies in music their heterosexual white executives did not like, and the "disco sucks" campaign, which he argued was homophobic, sexist and racist. Dahl denies that prejudice was his motivation for the event: "The worst thing is people calling Disco Demolition homophobic or racist. It just wasn't ... We weren't thinking like that." In a 2014 op-ed for Crain's Chicago Business, Dahl defended the event as "a romp, not of major cultural significance". He wrote that it had been "reframed" as prejudiced by a 1996 VH1 documentary about the 1970s, in a move he described as "a cheap shot made without exploration".

Wikipedia: Disco Demolitoin Night

 

[Killingbeans]

There is very little Rock that that allows for anything else than headbanging or jumping in a moshpit.

I think that depends on how you define Rock. I love (LOVE!) melodic Thrash and Speed Metal, but I also love the kind of Rock that's designed for sitting in a bean bag being stoned out of your mind (not that I actually do that).

Electronic music is sometimes also great for headbanging:
https://soundcloud.com/3xod1a%2Frayquaza

 

[JaccoW]

I think that depends on how you define Rock. I love (LOVE!) melodic Thrash and Speed Metal, but I also love the kind of Rock that's designed for sitting in a bean bag being stoned out of your mind (not that I actually do that).

Or how I define dancing. I have done theatre and have taken several types of dance classes over the years but I wouldn't exactly try to dance tango or shake my hips at Speed Metal.
But I'm now listening to the best selling Melodic Thrash Metal on Bandcamp and it's fairly danceable. Though quite a workout.

EDIT: The titles of those songs are always hilarious. "Terminal Brutality" and "Ruler of Defiance"

Kind of makes it hard to ever organize a Disco Demolition equivalent for Rock.

• Eradicate Rock night?
• Ravage Rock?
• Stamp Out Rock?
• Ruin Rock?
• Maim Metal?
• Extirpate Rock Evening?

They all sound like way too much of a good time.

 

[puppet]

Oh No, is it disco zombies come back to life?
I thought we put a permanent end to that garbage back on July 12th, 1979
We offered the disco ducks a 0.10 cent beer night to bring all their disco LP's
to Cominsky Park so we could blow them up.
A real piece of musical history now. LOL

I was there. Was the wifes first ballgame and she asked if that happened at every double header. No dear.
It was wild. Being more the WXRT type this did come as a surprise. Watched the rest of the festivities on TV @Chesdans Pizza.

 

[Killingbeans]

Or how I define dancing.

The dancing part went completely over my head

Kind of makes it hard to ever organize a Disco Demolition equivalent for Rock.

• Eradicate Rock night?
• Ravage Rock?
• Stamp Out Rock?
• Ruin Rock?
• Maim Metal?
• Extirpate Rock Evening?

They all sound like way too much of a good time.

Yep. It sounds way too Metal

 

[MattHooper]

still?

Heh. I do like Duran Duran, though I also think they are responsible for foisting the ugliest "radio hit" song ever on the public, Wild Boys.

Speaking of "wild," how crazy is the comeback of ABBA? It's impressive that they could come back after 40 years, in their mid 70's, and produce an album that still sounds like ABBA.

 

[Dilliw]

There is good, new music out there but it is increasingly hard to find because of the state of the marketplace. We're also at the tail end of some music genres where even mashing two or three together has been done.

As for new acts I really like the HU Band and can't wait for their upcoming release. Here you have a group of musicians highly trained in traditional Mongolian instruments and styles, and they are electrifying their traditional instruments to play rock and roll. I'm not old enough to remember the 50s but I would imagine their playing is akin to "Johnny Be Good" or something.

 

[Killingbeans]

We're also at the tail end of some music genres where even mashing two or three together has been done.

Somehow it got me thinking of the 1981 movie Outland. One ambitious part of the movie that I enjoy is the background music they made for the club scene. It's obviously designed to be as futuristic for the time as possible without being comical, and I personally think they pretty much nailed it. It's of course still outdated today, but it's one of many things that makes me believe in a sort of predictability in how the progress of music slosh around as waves.

 

[MattHooper]

I was listening to the Outland soundtrack a few weeks ago. I bought it when it came out in the 80's and always really liked that club source music.

Though I don't agree as much with the predictability of music. I don't see how, for instance, Rap would have been predicted to arise and become such a predominant popular music at some point.

 

[Axo1989]

Somehow it got me thinking of the 1981 movie Outland. One ambitious part of the movie that I enjoy is the background music they made for the club scene. It's obviously designed to be as futuristic for the time as possible without being comical, and I personally think they pretty much nailed it. It's of course still outdated today, but it's one of many things that makes me believe in a sort of predictability in how the progress of music slosh around as waves.

Yes, nice historic reference. Clubs of future past?

Interesting to compare to the present:

https://soundcloud.com/swanmeat%2Fnewyearsmix
And I want the club sandwich. Now I've heard ABBA who were an absolute iconic smash here in Oz, apparently (thank you Matt, very illuminating) some Swan Meat is a palate cleanser. DJ mixes are fun of course—including Henry Rollins infamous rant "I don't know what came first, ****** drugs or ****** music" threaded through this—but the cat is now totally pissed off by the psytrance beats. Best switch to a waltz:

https://soundcloud.com/psychicliberation%2Fswan-meat-daphnes-last-waltz
So you can dance to it. It's interesting how many electronic/experimental artists are classically trained (on "real instruments"). The next one slowly morphs back toward house/trance. The last one is back to proper electro headbanging. Also, nice images. And I'm being self-indulgent. Apologies in advance.

https://soundcloud.com/swanmeat%2Fhouse-absolute
https://soundcloud.com/swanmeat%2Ft00late

 

[Prana Ferox]

And just look at how annoyed some of them are by current music. XD

Someone recently pointed out Hyperpop/Glitchcore to me. Like an over the top version of pop, rap and synths mixed together. Not entirely my style, but at least you can dance to it.

Aphex Twin released the crossover hit Windowlicker in 1999 and he'd been putting out tracks for over a decade before that. I'm pretty sure by now it's been sampled in car commercials.

I think to the degree "old music is killing new" it's that, if you know the old, the new is a heck of a lot less experimental and daring than it makes itself out to be.

 

[Robin L]

Aphex Twin released the crossover hit Windowlicker in 1999 and he'd been putting out tracks for over a decade before that. I'm pretty sure by now it's been sampled in car commercials.

I think to the degree "old music is killing new" it's that, if you know the old, the new is a heck of a lot less experimental and daring than it makes itself out to be.

It's all an illusion: we swim in in a sea of memories and half remembered tunes. And tunes attach themselves to times, or at the very least, the transient taste of a given time that helps to identify and describe that time. And if one thinks older music is better than newer music there are two things going on. First, one has heard so much more old music many more times simply because one gets older. Note that one has the option of jumping into any of these different musical streams they want to, but they are much more likely to hew to known paths because that's human nature for the most part. The second being that those who don't follow the musical paths of others, those who made clear breaks with the past, tend to keep right on going in the same weird direction for the rest of their lives, Elliott Carter being one of the best examples.

If you want to stay young, stay weird.

 

[Axo1989]

Aphex Twin released the crossover hit Windowlicker in 1999 and he'd been putting out tracks for over a decade before that. I'm pretty sure by now it's been sampled in car commercials.

I think to the degree "old music is killing new" it's that, if you know the old, the new is a heck of a lot less experimental and daring than it makes itself out to be.

Yes, very much, but also no. I think many younger artists are well aware of antecedents and history. Especially electronic artists who sample. Some pillage randomly of course, but totally on topic the Swan Meat mix posted above includes Laurie Anderson's The Beginning of Memory which goes like this:

There's a story in an ancient play about birds called The Birds
And it's a short story from before the world began
From a time when there was no earth, no land.
Only air and birds everywhere. ...

And one of these birds was a lark and one day her father died. ...

She decided to bury her father in the back of her own head.
And this was the beginning of memory.
Because before this no one could remember a thing.
They were just constantly flying in circles.

There's a lot buried in my head already, not only memories but history, things others have recorded. I very much enjoy the classics. Drukqs is my favourite Aphex. Also Computer Controlled Acoustic Instruments has wonderful sounds and structures. So obviously he in turn owes a debt to avant-garde artists like Stockhausen.

 

[Killingbeans]

Aphex Twin released the crossover hit Windowlicker in 1999 and he'd been putting out tracks for over a decade before that.

Holy crap. I'm my mind that track was a decade old tops. I really need to get me some of his stuff. Come to Daddy and Windowlicker were great gateway drugs, but I've never allowed myselfs to dive more seriously into his music.

It's all an illusion: we swim in in a sea of memories and half remembered tunes.

Every now and then I get Depeche Mode - Enjoy The Silence as an ear worm out of nowhere. Every time I then listen to it I get disappointed. The version that lives its own life in my head is much bigger, more complex and textured in a way that connects with my emotions. The real track is still great, but since I've never really listened that much to Depeche Mode, I seem to lack that bit of nostalgia needed to melt it all together.

 

[Stratus]

Well, current mainstream music is utter garbage. However, there are some good modern genres and artists that don't get a huge attention. I myself like to listen to some Drum and Bass and Demoscene music (both are electronic genres).

 

[ta240]

The real question is why? Did talent disappear, I don't think so. Part of the answer is in my last post, music business dosn't spend the money it use to to find and develop new artists. And they want instant success, where many of these great old bands took 2 or 3 albums to get a hit but the labels kept supporting them anyway. Today many of them would dissapear after there first album and no one would know them.

I read a theory somewhere that the internet has taken away the incubation period that new sounds used to have. I remember often hearing new bands referred to as having the "insert location here" sound. They'd perform mostly within their local area and the sound would develop there as they'd get better and refine their sound. Other artists in that area would hear them and they'd pick up parts of the sound and run with it; creating their own version of it. But nobody outside of the geographic area would know of them. Then, when a label picked up one of the groups, their sound would be heard by the entire country and to most of the people it would be a new and exciting sound. Then a few more of the groups from that area would make it. A while later a band from another area would break through and we'd get a different sound from them. Now musicians don't grow up with their local sound they grow up with whatever is popular on youtube.
Combine that with what has been mentioned with DJs back then talking about the new bands and their music; basically promoting it for them and we'd get more unique bands hitting the charts.
I'd also have to think that whatever is popular on youtube is what is profitable for the labels and taking a risk on something different, especially when it can't be simply promoted on local radio stations has to be something they aren't that interested in. Who wants to discover the new sound when someone sounds just like the current money maker?

 

[ta240]

But yoots are supposed to rebel against the older generation.

But what happens when the older generation doesn't stop rebelling? We've got an entire generation of middle to later aged people that act like teenagers.

For better or worse, at some point in time, the older group started trying to impress the kids and want to be like the kids. The car with the music so loud you can feel 5 cars away? That is more likely a 35+ trying to relive his teen years than a teenager. That music that is traveling for blocks in the neighborhood. It is probably the 50 year old that wants everyone to think he is cool.