Is my equalizer the low cost high pass filter?

[alaios]

Hi all,
a bit general question to see how much I understand the "theory". I wanted for some time to test my main speakers with high pass filters since I am running low-pass active subwoofers. My stereo amplifier does not have high pass filters and I do not see why mains should still be fed with the full range signal. No reason to have them trying to cover below 80 Hz that anyway are not doing.

What if I turn down all the way down my bass equalizer down to -10dB? Would that still make my main speakers bit more "relaxed" kind of having a hpf ?
I would also assume that the equalizer will not affect my active subs.

Let me know what are your thoughts. Can we achieve "somehow" the benefits of hpf if we just turn down all the way the bass equalization reducing the burden of the main to exert so much?

Regards,
Alex

 

[ZolaIII]

Do you use detected DAC/preamp to feed them?
Do you have a multichannel DAC or sound card/interface?

 

[alaios]

Hi Zolall,
I am not sure I get you. You are asking about by main speakers? I am having a denon m41 integrated (that is also "mini" device). These feeds my main speakers directly and only has an in built equalizer.
My active subs are connected to sub output (which I guess is what comes after the preamp)

 

[ZolaIII]

Well that way you can't have high pass filter at all. If you use analog outputs from two chenel DAC to subwoofers you can insert pasive filter on subwoofer or line output you split and feed power amplifier with. You can either buy or make pasive high pass filters.
Like this:

Harrison Labs In-line Crossover Review (RCA)

This is a review and measurements of the HLabs in-line RCA 50 Hz crossover. It was kindly sent to me by a member and costs US $27.95. I understand these are popular with car audio folks. Company sells many variations of this and also a custom version. The sample I received was "New Old...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But high pass one's or make them yourself with condensers:

high-pass-filter

If you have multichannel DAC in form of desktop PC sound card or interface (that doesn't behave bad) you can experiment with different frequency high pass filters for cheap (using LFE sub out from it or re mapping output chenels to bass chenels) in digital domain and cleaner.
Cheapest is to use what you already have or what costs least and would work good with your speakers if and how you are able to achieve it (making passive filters won't cost more than cuple of buck's if you are skilled to do it and buying already made one's will set you back about 20 $/€).

 

[alaios]

Thanks Zolall,
I think my question (my apologies if I have not conveyed it in a better way) is more if turning the bass volume down on the full range signal of my main speakers will give some of the benefits of having a HPF to the main speakers (that I can not have in my setup).
What I mean with that is that my mains will not try to extend that "hard" to play the lower bass limiting the "pressure" to the tiny woofer.

 

[Sokel]

What's your amp?

 

[ZolaIII]

What's your amp?

Denon M41 25W @8 Ohms mini integrated.

 

[Sokel]

Denon M41 25W @8 Ohms mini integrated.

That's all the info we have then,there no frequency definition:

Adjusting the tone RCD-M41 RCD-M41DAB

manuals.denon.com

 

[ZolaIII]

That's all the info we have then,there no frequency definition:

Adjusting the tone RCD-M41 RCD-M41DAB

manuals.denon.com

This is from much older but similar mini (which I still have stored) where they were implemented excellent but still not something I would use for this (and I don't know if it applies or not to sub LFE out).

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/denon/ud-m30/preamp/FR060004-TONE.gif

 

[solderdude]

Hi all,
a bit general question to see how much I understand the "theory". I wanted for some time to test my main speakers with high pass filters since I am running low-pass active subwoofers. My stereo amplifier does not have high pass filters and I do not see why mains should still be fed with the full range signal. No reason to have them trying to cover below 80 Hz that anyway are not doing.

What if I turn down all the way down my bass equalizer down to -10dB? Would that still make my main speakers bit more "relaxed" kind of having a hpf ?
I would also assume that the equalizer will not affect my active subs.

Let me know what are your thoughts. Can we achieve "somehow" the benefits of hpf if we just turn down all the way the bass equalization reducing the burden of the main to exert so much?

Regards,
Alex

You would only be attenuating to the max. attenuation. When this is -12dB that's the best you can do.
That will certainly help.
-12dB = 4x less voltage so 16x less power for the lower frequencies.
As most 'energy' is in the bass you might be able to play 10dB louder because you would not be clipping the power amp. Also the speakers would receive much less power.

It is not optimal but you can do this to see if a high-pass filter brings the desired effect.

 

[ZolaIII]

@alaios curious to ask what are the speakers? Those have a DSP tuning for stock Denon speakers which were sold together with them (far from really good) but curious to see what it does. Did you try to measure it (with app if you don't have measurement microphone)?

 

[Zapper]

Hi all,
a bit general question to see how much I understand the "theory". I wanted for some time to test my main speakers with high pass filters since I am running low-pass active subwoofers. My stereo amplifier does not have high pass filters and I do not see why mains should still be fed with the full range signal. No reason to have them trying to cover below 80 Hz that anyway are not doing.

What if I turn down all the way down my bass equalizer down to -10dB? Would that still make my main speakers bit more "relaxed" kind of having a hpf ?

That will reduce the lowest frequencies to your speakers but will also attenuate a broad range of higher frequencies, maybe starting as high as 500Hz. So you will lose a lot of mid-bass and lower midrange. A HPF will sharply attenuate below the cutoff frequency and have very little attenuation above it.

This plot shows how typical tone controls work. Notice the very broad range of frequencies affected.

I would also assume that the equalizer will not affect my active subs.

Correct.

Let me know what are your thoughts. Can we achieve "somehow" the benefits of hpf if we just turn down all the way the bass equalization reducing the burden of the main to exert so much?

No, you need a much sharper filter than a tone control to serve as a HPF.

Regards,
Alex

 

[alaios]

@alaios curious to ask what are the speakers? Those have a DSP tuning for stock Denon speakers which were sold together with them (far from really good) but curious to see what it does. Did you try to measure it (with app if you don't have measurement microphone)?

my main speakers are the dali oberon on wall speakers.
The subs are rel tzeros

 

[alaios]

That will reduce the lowest frequencies to your speakers but will also attenuate a broad range of higher frequencies, maybe starting as high as 500Hz. So you will lose a lot of mid-bass and lower midrange. A HPF will sharply attenuate below the cutoff frequency and have very little attenuation above it.

This plot shows how typical tone controls work. Notice the very broad range of frequencies affected.
View attachment 278784

Correct.

No, you need a much sharper filter than a tone control to serve as a HPF.

that is very interesting. I guess with a measuring microphone I can test those. As long as I can reduce the bass output with equalizer and do not notice the drop being below 120 Hz I guess I would be good. I can try to offset a bit by my subs playing bit higher in the crossover.
A measurement microphone will be my enabler I guess to test this fast

 

[tomtoo]

You can play with it. Not easy to get it right. But if you enjoy playing around why not.

 

[fpitas]

Speaker Crossovers: The Ultimate Guide – Audio University

audiouniversityonline.com

 

[alaios]

You can play with it. Not easy to get it right. But if you enjoy playing around why not.

so my way of thinking was not that wrong but it was more the luck of experience that I did not realize that equalizers are not sharp at all. If there were sharp one could say that reducing the output of the bass region below some dB will provide some type of benefits that start to resemble HPF advantages

 

[tomtoo]

so my way of thinking was not that wrong but it was more the luck of experience that I did not realize that equalizers are not sharp at all. If there were sharp one could say that reducing the output of the bass region below some dB will provide some type of benefits that start to resemble HPF advantages

The thinking was ok. I mean you can still try. It has a lot of dependencis. If your speakers have to much upper bass, you could reduce this by some db and just add some lower bass with the sub. It wont change the world. But reducing 4dB on the main speaker could be helpfull if you like to go a little louder. Playing a little around can be fun and gives experience.

 

[alaios]

I was thinking the same (although it sounds that I would fail) the motivation was to relax the main for very demanding loud excursions trying to play lower frequencies

 

[tomtoo]

I was thinking the same (although it sounds that I would fail) the motivation was to relax the main for very demanding loud excursions trying to play lower frequencies

Try, the pros have to fight for 3dB.