Is it worth buying used integrated amplifiers like yamaha ax590 or is it better to just get something like Aiyima or Loxije?

[TheBatsEar]

AS 201 weak at over 100WPC measured?

That's at 8 ohms, 40Hz—20kHz, at 0.2% THD. It'll shut down if you listen to a good amount of base into 4 ohm speakers within minutes. Wonky at 2 ohm 30Hz.

OK - I haven't 'heard' one, so cannot comment further...

At low volumes it sounds to me like almost any other amp. It's at higher volumes with speakers that dip below 4 ohms you hear it's limitations.

I hope Restorer John and other techies could confirm, but many 1970's far eastern amps are still working fine on original components,

That's survivorship bias, there will be a few Chi-Fi class D amps from today around in 40 years too.
Let him tell you about those millions that didn't make it .

I wouldn't buy something that old, if you just want to listen to music. A used R-S700 can be had for less than 200€, a used A-S301 for sometimes for 150€ and both would be much, much younger.

 

[DSJR]

That's at 8 ohms, 40Hz—20kHz, at 0.2% THD. It'll shut down if you listen to a good amount of base into 4 ohm speakers within minutes. Wonky at 2 ohm 30Hz.


At low volumes it sounds to me like almost any other amp. It's at higher volumes with speakers that dip below 4 ohms you hear it's limitations.


That's survivorship bias, there will be a few Chi-Fi class D amps from today around in 40 years too.
Let him tell you about those millions that didn't make it .

I wouldn't buy something that old, if you just want to listen to music. A used R-S700 can be had for less than 200€, a used A-S301 for sometimes for 150€ and both would be much, much younger.

I have too many amps here but a pal bought a 201 to drive speakers with a 6 ohm minimum impedance and he's delighted with it - full orchestral works too - Remember our rooms are closet sized compared to many in the US

 

[TheBatsEar]

I have too many amps here but a pal bought a 201 to drive speakers with a 6 ohm minimum impedance and he's delighted with it - full orchestral works too - Remember our rooms are closet sized compared to many in the US

I had the R-S202D (innards are revealed in the "Inside Yamah Amps" thread) and wasn't happy at high volumes. I used them with Focal Chorus 826V (they dip to 2.8 ohms), Focal Chorus 706 and ATC SCM19v2. Compared to any other Yamaha i looked into, i thought they had the smallest power supply and the smallest heat sink as well. Even the AX-10 was beefier.

But that was my experience, other might have more luck. Glad it works for you pal with his stuff.

As for room size, mine is about 35m²/376 square feet.
But it's all stone walls, none of that wood/cardboard/gypsum stuff many in the US have, i bet some even have negative room gain.

 

[DSJR]

I had the R-S202D (innards are revealed in the "Inside Yamah Amps" thread) and wasn't happy at high volumes. I used them with Focal Chorus 826V (they dip to 2.8 ohms), Focal Chorus 706 and ATC SCM19v2. Compared to any other Yamaha i looked into, i thought they had the smallest power supply and the smallest heat sink as well. Even the AX-10 was beefier.

But that was my experience, other might have more luck. Glad it works for you pal with his stuff.

As for room size, mine is about 35m²/376 square feet.
But it's all stone walls, none of that wood/cardboard/gypsum stuff many in the US have, i bet some even have negative room gain.

I know some Focals have a low nominal impedance and, well, ATC 'anything' passive model is around 6 ohms where it matters and woefully inefficient (the half cone* and coil assembly removed when an amp went DC and blew them on that 6" driver weighs an absolute ton needing strong taut suspension and it's made worse to drive as the coil is a short one in a long gap). *I've seen pics of ATC's with that driver with a circular 'join' halfway up the cone between surround and dome and feel these are repaired and re-doped drivers from personal experience - probably makes no difference though...

I must admit I wondered why the upper models didn't seem ore powerful yet must be and I'm sure I sawe a spec on the 201 as 100WPC at 10% distortion... Only the link earlier here showed it could manage over 100W as I'd got it in my mind as a 60WPC model

Anyway, the current range and immediate predecessors sans dac inputs are pretty cheap. Going back to my Jurassic times, a pal has a surviving CA800 and at low levels with Class A switched on, it 'sounded' delightful and didn't run *too* hot.....

 

[Joe Smith]

Yeah, as others are saying on here - a lot depends on your speaker impedance and your usual listening levels. The Aiyima type class D amps are best used for speakers in the 6-8 ohm range, if you have a small to medium sized room, and listen at lower to moderate listening levels. If your needs are different from that, then start thinking about spending up for an integrated class AB amp that will give you more like 100-150 wpc.

 

[TheBatsEar]

a lot depends on your speaker impedance and your usual listening levels

True.

Or get a more solid device in the first place, you don't pay that much more i think. Maybe you want to change speakers some day, no need to change the amp as well.

 

[robot34]

I don't think you are. Another benefit of buying speakers and amp is flexibility for the future.

• You want to compare a second pair of speakers? Just hook them up.
• You want to add a systemwide MiniDSP? Make sure your used amp has pre-out/main-in.
• You want to buy a record player but don't want to waste money? Get a used middle class player for the price of todays low end and connect it to phono in.

This isn't as easy with active speakers.


I don't think they sound better or worse by much. I just think you get more for the money if you buy a used integrated amp.


To be honest, i would skip the A-S201 and R-S202, they sound weak and you need very forgiving speakers to have real fun with them.
I think Yamaha starts at A-S300/301.


I wouldn't go back that far, potentiometers get scratchy, relays get crusty. I would stay within the last 5 years or so to get another 10 years of usage.


One of the best in value right now, i think, is the Yamaha R-S700. It has all the features i would want in a used amp:

• pre-out/main-in loop for EQ or DSP
• variable loudness
• plenty of power (same power amp section as the A-S700, A-S701, A-S801)
• looks very nice in silver
• runs a bit under the radar as a receiver, can be had for 200€, sometimes for less with patience

This is what it looks like from the inside:

Inside Yamaha amps

Just over a year ago I bought an AS501 for my daughter, and it is absolutely fine. It was only 359 euros in the Netherlands, and at that time a lot less than the AS701 that is only just a bit more powerful. In this day and age of internet radio I see no point in buying receivers anymore...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Also worth looking at at Yamaha, but without pre-in/main-out:

• A-S300/301
• A-S500/501
• A-S700/701

Here is what those numbers and letters mean at Yamaha:

• The 1 at the end is the newer line and has a builtin DAC to connect two digital sources, like a TV, XBox, CD-Player or Computer (you may need an external soundcard with digital toslink or coax output for 15€).
• The A is for Amplifier, a R is for Receiver. The S is the current line of products.
• A R-S is an analog FM receiver, R-N means it has network capabilities and builtin streaming. These are still pricey, even used.
• The higher the number, the better the power amplifier section. 500 is better than 300, in power and construction. For example, i think a A-S201 can only be used with 8 ohm speakers. A 301 can be used with 4 ohms. You need proper cooling for 4 ohms, which the 200 line does not have.

As for used speakers, i find the Kef LS50 (first version without Meta) to be incredible value right now at sometimes 500€ for the used pair. But that might be above your budget still. If you can get a Q350 that would be a very good combination with the R-S700.

The Yamaha amps have a subwoofer output, so you can add a used subwoofer later, which for music makes a lot of difference.

Anyway, lots of text. In fewer words: get a R-S700 and a pair of LS50 or Q350 for maximum value, all used of course.

This is a very useful guide thank you. I can't find R-S700 for a good price but I will try to find others if they pop up on ebay. So newer the better, more power the better, less thd the better!
Do you happen to know any other speakers to look out for on the used market other than Q350 and LS50? Does the same rule of younger the better apply here too(as in drivers dying I suppose)?

In what condition is that Yamaha ax590? How much is it sold for?

Can you service amplifiers yourself? Can you replace electronics, such as electrolytic capacitors in the power supply, in an amplifier?

C141
C142
in the schedule, you will find here:

Yamaha AX-590 Stereo Integrated Amplifier Manual | HiFi Engine

www.hifiengine.com

Looks at the picture not so difficult to access, if you get the card loose. But that is something that someone who is doing recap can give their view on.

Edit:
If you think it's worth spending money on recap, plus the time it takes to fix. If you think it has potential.

It was sold already, but as people here pointed out, I'll look for something newer. I do not have any skills into repairing or acquiring the materials needed to replace the parts, as I've read it's best to leave it to the professionals for a full checkup rather than just re solder some parts in.
Thanks for the information!

 

[TheBatsEar]

This is a very useful guide thank you. I can't find R-S700 for a good price but I will try to find others if they pop up on ebay. So newer the better, more power the better, less thd the better!

Keep looking, it was a popular device. Try to use meta sites, like Hifishark, they search worldwide:

Used R-S700 for Sale | HifiShark.com

Used R-S700 for sale on 300+ second hand hifi sites & shops. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability

www.hifishark.com

If you start at a price of 80€ or more you get more relevant hits.

Do you happen to know any other speakers to look out for on the used market other than Q350 and LS50? Does the same rule of younger the better apply here too(as in drivers dying I suppose)?

Not from my own experience, no. I'm usually into more pricey things.

I think with speakers you shouldn't go older than 5 years either, if you aren't into repairing stuff. Rubber sourounds harden, part values drift. But again, buying used means you get the better value. If you bought at a good price and don't like it, just sell it for the same price.

If you buy new, you have usually lost 30% of your investment once you open the box. There are lots of used speaker that offer exceptional value after three or four years.

Check out some of Amirs speaker reviews. Maybe start with the well behaved JBL A130:

JBL Stage A130 Review (speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the JBL Stage A130 bookshelf speaker. I purchases these online but can't find the receipt. They normally cost US $300/pair but the place I bought them from has them for $209 right now. The A130 looks plain until you take off the grill and then...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In that review a lot of the competition is mentioned as well. I saw a pair of them recently for 170€ used, but didn't bite because i have so much stuff already.

Maybe it's best to just read and get a feeling for what others have to say.

 

[pseudoid]

You can ask 10 members and probably get 11 different answers!

I was wrong!
I counted at least 2-dozen different equipment model recommendations... thus far.

 

[Plcamp]

I use an e30 DAC as a preamp to drive an old Adcom 535II (which I thoroughly cleaned, rebiased etc. - it’s easy to take apart and reassemble) that’s a good option if you can find an unspoilt power amp, as they generally don’t have many components (switches, pots) that suffer greatly from age (all electrolytics in the Adcom were just fine, none replaced).

 

[pseudoid]

Adcom

I see a (reasonably priced and maybe even used) Rotel amp in your future...

 

[Plcamp]

I see a (reasonably priced and maybe even used) Rotel amp in your future...

I doubt that…would not be an improvement IMO. I also have a Hafler 220 and an XL280. They all sound great with the e30.

 

[Putter]

At first I was looking at active monitors like iloud micro, presonus eris e5, jbl 305. But they don't seem like good value when compared to something like used integrated amplifier and used speakers like kef c55 or q100, or am I wrong?
Also these used old integrated amplifiers, are they likely to have problems and need repair? Do they sound significantly better than chinese amplifiers like Aiyima and Lojie?

They are unlikely to sound better as long as you are listening within normal volumes. One thing that hasn't been asked in this thread is what kind of listening are you doing. Is it nearfield with speakers within a few feet of the listener. Powered speakers can be a problem with audible hiss. This doesn't apply to every model, but is something to be aware of. In spite of this, you might look at something like the current versions of JBL 305/6 and Kali LP-6 if you need it for near field.

Another suggestion for amplification would be 'obsolete' AV receivers from Onkyo, Denon, Sony, etc. They are obsolete because they don't have HDMI which can be an advantage because many early HDMI implementations were problematic especially from a used perspective. They typically have decent amps particularly the more upscale models. Actual power can generally be judged by weight. Anything over 9 kg should be adequate. In addition they have subwoofer outs which while a sub may not be in your current plans is a reasonable upgrade.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Another suggestion for amplification would be 'obsolete' AV receivers from Onkyo, Denon, Sony, etc. They are obsolete because they don't have HDMI which can be an advantage because many early HDMI implementations were problematic especially from a used perspective.

Indeed! Lots of really nice hardware is sold for basically peanuts because it doesn't support Atmos, the latest HDMI or some other current thing.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Maybe just one last thought: In the end it doesn't matter that much. A 70ies amp will make you enjoy the music just like this years model.

 

[robot34]

Keep looking, it was a popular device. Try to use meta sites, like Hifishark, they search worldwide:

Used R-S700 for Sale | HifiShark.com

Used R-S700 for sale on 300+ second hand hifi sites & shops. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability

www.hifishark.com

If you start at a price of 80€ or more you get more relevant hits.


Not from my own experience, no. I'm usually into more pricey things.

I think with speakers you shouldn't go older than 5 years either, if you aren't into repairing stuff. Rubber sourounds harden, part values drift. But again, buying used means you get the better value. If you bought at a good price and don't like it, just sell it for the same price.

If you buy new, you have usually lost 30% of your investment once you open the box. There are lots of used speaker that offer exceptional value after three or four years.

Check out some of Amirs speaker reviews. Maybe start with the well behaved JBL A130:

JBL Stage A130 Review (speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the JBL Stage A130 bookshelf speaker. I purchases these online but can't find the receipt. They normally cost US $300/pair but the place I bought them from has them for $209 right now. The A130 looks plain until you take off the grill and then...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In that review a lot of the competition is mentioned as well. I saw a pair of them recently for 170€ used, but didn't bite because i have so much stuff already.

Maybe it's best to just read and get a feeling for what others have to say.

Yeah I figured I'd have more trouble finding speakers than an amplifier, so many mixed reviews and ratings. I'll try looking hopefully I find a good price for R-S700.

They are unlikely to sound better as long as you are listening within normal volumes. One thing that hasn't been asked in this thread is what kind of listening are you doing. Is it nearfield with speakers within a few feet of the listener. Powered speakers can be a problem with audible hiss. This doesn't apply to every model, but is something to be aware of. In spite of this, you might look at something like the current versions of JBL 305/6 and Kali LP-6 if you need it for near field.

Another suggestion for amplification would be 'obsolete' AV receivers from Onkyo, Denon, Sony, etc. They are obsolete because they don't have HDMI which can be an advantage because many early HDMI implementations were problematic especially from a used perspective. They typically have decent amps particularly the more upscale models. Actual power can generally be judged by weight. Anything over 9 kg should be adequate. In addition they have subwoofer outs which while a sub may not be in your current plans is a reasonable upgrade.

Nearfield.

I've read about hiss that's another thing that made me look more into passive speakers. Are there any active speakers that are known to not hiss? I see some have class D amps while some have A-B. I am surprised to see that some active speakers have such high ratings compared to passives, while all I read elsewhere is that the passives are way better and more detailed for the price. I am not sure what goes into these ratings member sweetchaos listed, but does not seem right to me? For instance jbl 305 has a PS of 5.0 while jbl 530 has PS of 5.4. Is it possible that there is not much difference between the two? And Kali lp6v2 has PS of 5.9 while KEF LS50 meta has PS of 5.6? I am probably not interpreting this right so I apologize if I'm talking nonsense here.

I see AV receivers have more noise and higher THD when compared to power amplifiers and integrated amplifiers, is that something I should consider when buying? I also noticed they offer a lot more power for the price. Any models I should look for? I'd rather invest in better 2.0 system than add a sub as it's for my desk use in an apartment.

 

[Plcamp]

“I see AV receivers have more noise and higher THD when compared to power amplifiers and integrated amplifiers, is that something I should consider when buying? I also noticed they offer a lot more power for the price”

Be careful with that. Reviews in here I think do support certain Denon AVR’s but in my experience with Yamaha AVR’s…

They can’t drive 4 ohms well, don’t be confident about AVR power claims.
Their preamps don’t deliver 2v
Much noisier and lower SINAD.

 

[ZolaIII]

I got not much used 2~3 years old R-N402D last year with which I am pretty satisfied for about 250$. It's always a bit of gamble but in this case perfectly OK regarding me.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I got not much used 2~3 years old R-N402D last year with which I am pretty satisfied for about 250$. It's always a bit of gamble but in this case perfectly OK regarding me.

Consider making a few pics for this thread:

Inside Yamaha amps

Anyone interested in looking inside Yamaha amps? I have a bunch in my collection, most of them need repair, all of them have to be opened eventually for dusting. I'll start with some pictures i made inside a A-S1000 that i bought for 500€ in mint condition. This one weighs 25kg, it's a serious...

www.audiosciencereview.com