I have questions!

[rfj1862]

Hi all,

First post here although I have been reading with great interest. I'm not a complete newbie but I go through cycles of audiophilia every 5 years or so, so just enough time for me to lose all of my audio knowledge.

I listen to music 10 hours a day, primarily on my desktop system, which is far fancier than my audio equipment elsewhere in the house because it is what I use most. It currently consists of an Accuphase e480 integrated, an old tube DAC from 2014 or so (Line Magnetic LM-502CA), Lipinsky L707 monitors, and a very well integrated but old Velodyne sub. I am listening very near field which has always been my preference.

I was wondering 2 things:

1. I've been reading the DAC reviews. Is there a list somewhere on here of recommended components? If not, what is the "best" reasonably priced DAC recently based on measurements? Will a new DAC actually provide an audible improvement over my old tube DAC? I'm thinking of just getting the Accuphase D60 card that integrates into the option slot but I have not seen measurements or a review anywhere for it, but it seems not ridiculously priced from Japan.
2. Does anyone have a recommendation for vibration isolation for my components? They are on my desktop and the sub is underneath the desk and they vibrate audibly at 58-62 hz and it is driving my crazy. I was thinking about the IsoAcoustics Delos turntable isolation stand, which is the right size but quite expensive.

Thanks. Just want to say that as I scientist I really appreciate the evidence-based content on ASR. Obviously since I have a tube DAC I haven't exactly followed an evidence-based approach when it comes to audio equipment. My colleagues would be ashamed, but I'm working on it!

 

[RayDunzl]

Will a new DAC actually provide an audible improvement over my old tube DAC?

A modern solid state DAC will likely measure better.

If it will "sound" better may depend upon your taste and hearing acuity.

 

[Marc v E]

Hi there,

I would suggest you buy a Umik-1 microphone (100 dollar). Then using REW, measure your system. Then apply eq to get a good frequency response.

This will give you good feedback what you can improve upon. Tbh I would expect some sort of stand to get your speakers up to ear level will help greatly. Then applying eq to get a flat frequency at listeners position (with free software). If you do decide to change the dac consider the minidsp flex because it's the only one where you can apply eq and crossover between your speakers and sub.

 

[AdamG]

Welcome Aboard @rfj1862 !

 

[SIY]

Hi all,

First post here although I have been reading with great interest. I'm not a complete newbie but I go through cycles of audiophilia every 5 years or so, so just enough time for me to lose all of my audio knowledge.

I listen to music 10 hours a day, primarily on my desktop system, which is far fancier than my audio equipment elsewhere in the house because it is what I use most. It currently consists of an Accuphase e480 integrated, an old tube DAC from 2014 or so (Line Magnetic LM-502CA), Lipinsky L707 monitors, and a very well integrated but old Velodyne sub. I am listening very near field which has always been my preference.

I was wondering 2 things:

1. I've been reading the DAC reviews. Is there a list somewhere on here of recommended components? If not, what is the "best" reasonably priced DAC recently based on measurements? Will a new DAC actually provide an audible improvement over my old tube DAC? I'm thinking of just getting the Accuphase D60 card that integrates into the option slot but I have not seen measurements or a review anywhere for it, but it seems not ridiculously priced from Japan.
2. Does anyone have a recommendation for vibration isolation for my components? They are on my desktop and the sub is underneath the desk and they vibrate audibly at 58-62 hz and it is driving my crazy. I was thinking about the IsoAcoustics Delos turntable isolation stand, which is the right size but quite expensive.

Thanks. Just want to say that as I scientist I really appreciate the evidence-based content on ASR. Obviously since I have a tube DAC I haven't exactly followed an evidence-based approach when it comes to audio equipment. My colleagues would be ashamed, but I'm working on it!

The only component that will possibly benefit from vibration isolation is your turntable, if you have one. If it's just the rattling that bothers you, a thin sheet of Sorbothane or similar under the culprits will generally kill that.

What is your scientific specialty?

 

[rfj1862]

The only component that will possibly benefit from vibration isolation is your turntable, if you have one. If it's just the rattling that bothers you, a thin sheet of Sorbothane or similar under the culprits will generally kill that.

I'm not worried about vibration affecting audio quality; I just don't like the minor component rattles that occur at about 60 hz due to the sub under the desk. Will try the sorbothane, thanks!

What is your scientific specialty?

I'm a molecular biologist! For audio stuff all that means is that I likely suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect

Tbh I would expect some sort of stand to get your speakers up to ear level will help greatly.

The nice thing about these speakers is that the tweeter is at precisely ear height so I'm set there. I am very happy with these speakers; I bought them from a professional studio that had a fire.

Then applying eq to get a flat frequency at listeners position (with free software)

Good idea. I'm comfortable with measuring but I have no idea how to integrate digital eq into my system without major changes. But I will do my research and ask abundant dumb questions I'm sure.

 

[rfj1862]

A question, if you please: do the Lipinski speakers have an extremely small vertical sweet spot?

I haven't noticed but I listen almost exclusively seated which puts the tweeters at exact ear height.

 

[mhardy6647]

I'm a molecular biologist! For audio stuff all that means is that I likely suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect

Biochemist here (old enough to be more of the old-school reductionist, kind -- although conversant with the biology part, too). Howdy!
Don't take the quantitative stuff too, too seriously, IMO -- when it comes to hifi.

 

[Zek]

Does anyone have a recommendation for vibration isolation for my components?

Maybe something like this...

anti-vibration pads - Google Search

 

[MaxwellsEq]

For a low cost isolation experiment, cut a couple of cheap tennis balls in half and use them under the sub or anything else vibrating. It will give you a clearer idea of what your needs are.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Maybe something like this...

anti-vibration pads - Google Search

Good pricing for these from www.supplyhouse.com

 

[PortaStudio]

Lipinsky L707 monitors

If you are not into audio production, a set of HiFi speakers might be better for casual listening.

I am listening very near field which has always been my preference.

If this is your preference, but those speaker are probably built to be listened from a greater distance. They are also way to close to each other, as well as too close to the back wall. Another handicap is that they are in the corner of the room. Correct placement increases the quality of your experience the most in my opinion. The placement is really off, since the speakers don't point at your ears when you are sitting on your desk using your keyboard and mouse and as mentioned the distance to the (corner)walls and listener, as well as the distance between the speakers. In addition, you want a perfect triangle between the listener and the stereo pair. (HiFi speaker might be more forgiving for this kind of stuff.)

2. Does anyone have a recommendation for vibration isolation for my components? They are on my desktop and the sub is underneath the desk and they vibrate audibly at 58-62 hz and it is driving my crazy. I was thinking about the IsoAcoustics Delos turntable isolation stand, which is the right size but quite expensive.

I would recommend trying to relocate the sub. For the stereo pair you might want something like this:

t.akustik ISO-Pad 6

Decoupling Pad For acoustic decoupling of studio monitors, An isolation pad consists of two components, which allows you to change the position of the monitor both horizontally and in 2 different angles (4° and 8°), Load-bearing capacity per pad:...

www.thomannmusic.com

 

[AnalogSteph]

When I read the thread title, I couldn't help but think of this track...

Anyway...

In the review of these speakers, JA notes:

The traces in fig.1 are free from the small wrinkles and discontinuities that would imply the existence of cabinet resonances. However, a couple of strong modes could be found on both the sidewalls and the rear panel, at 465Hz and 555Hz (fig.2). While it is possible that these resonances are high enough in frequency to have no subjective consequences—LG noted no midrange congestion in his auditioning—I would have preferred not to have seen them, as they are very high in level. L-707 owners should experiment with using damping materials between the cabinet and the stand (see my article on this subject).

Tallying up all the existing equipment, it looks like you've got about 10 grand (retail) worth of electronics plus about half that in speakers there (though it looks like the speakers may have gone up by about 100% since 2005 with inflation and all). That's, let's say, a rather less than ideal budget distribution. Plus, I take it that the Accuphase is very nicely built as these usually are, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that using this ~50lb, 180 wpc (or 260 W / 4 ohms) amp to power 90 dB / 2.83 V, 4 ohm speakers at your desk may be just a smidgen oversized. (Last time I checked, not very many people need 111 dB SPL peak levels in the office.) The thing is specified with 93 W of mains power consumption at idle, or at least the version sold over here is. I think it's safe to say that efficiency isn't your middle name! I hope you're in Canada or something where the extra heat will generally be put to good use at least, not in A/C the whole year round territory...
(Also, did you know that having multiple monitors can up your computer idle power draw quite a bit if you have a discrete GPU? It can be several tens of watts even on the desktop. Worth firing HWMonitor or something up over to check. There have been occasional improvements - sometimes drastic - via driver updates, e.g. the AMD RX6000 series comes to mind.)

You probably have more money tied up in a vanity item - a tube DAC - than I would have been comfortable with spending for my entire office setup earlier this year. Oof. (I got a pair of EVE SC203s and some basic acoustic treatment material, plus an EVO 4 audio interface and Sonarworks mic to beat the frequency response into shape. I could deal with the treble unevenness and bass issues via EQ, just as long as they didn't hiss audibly, had front volume and needed little power. My office listening levels are low enough that I can give 3" drivers some bass extension, but in return hiss is always a concern. Side note, in some respects I like that system better than mine at home, e.g. the imaging is great, and don't mind spending an extra hour in the office now...)

OK, now that my inner miser has stopped throwing a fit, let's just say a preamp-class DAC (about $300-1100 US, there's a good few) plus a decent Class D power amp (Hypex module something or other) or a Benchmark AHB2 would probably just about quarter the idle power consumption and take up a fair bit less space, too... all with a few grand left over. And it would sound just fine - no hiss, no distortion.

One could also go straight to active monitors and eliminate the external power amp altogether, but I'd rather want to squeeze out the most out of the existing speakers as-is, which seem fairly good performers if a bit oldschool in construction (stepped foam around the tweeter like this had generally been superseded by waveguides even in 2005). I reckon these can still be flattened out a bit further. (Be warned that getting the hang of the measurement side can take a while. See e.g. this thread.)

I'm comfortable with measuring but I have no idea how to integrate digital eq into my system without major changes.

Looks like you've got a Windows machine - what's the audio player? If you can be bothered with having to manually manage device sample rate settings (it's easy enough once you know how to get to the old Sound dialog via system sounds) when using shared mode output, the combo of Equalizer APO + PEACE would fit the bill nicely. It works system-wide, just as long as the processing bits of the Windows sound stack aren't explicitly bypassed (e.g. WASAPI exclusive mode or ASIO output). I would recommend bringing down application-level volume sliders a bit, so that (a) you don't bump into the -0.1ish dBFS hard-limiter in the sound stack and (b) have more uniform output levels across the board.

BTW, in stark contrast to the speaker setup, the Blue Yeti mic sitting on the desk is woefully normcore. For the love of $higher being of choice, at least give the poor thing a decent boom arm (Rode PSA-1 or something) and a shockmount. I mean, it'll still sound like the assortment of cheap small-diaphragm capsules it is (can you tell I'm not a huge fan?), but at least you'll be able to place it more sensibly in relation to your mouth and won't be recording every little bump on your desk in its full splendor. If all you want is a good cardioid USB mic and can't be bothered with an external audio interface, the new Rode NT-USB+ might make a decent replacement for the Yeti (whose other patterns are likely to sit dormant with a lot of people). I would ditch the metal pop screen and just place it 45° off-axis though.

 

[Daverz]

I agree with @PortaStudio, I think that with their low-order crossovers the Lipinski's are way too close for proper integration of the drivers (I don't see anything about minimum listening distance on the Lipinski site, though). They are definitely not meant to be desktop (or even near-field) monitors. I'm basing this partly on experience with the similar Dunlavy designs (e.g. SC-I). I don't know if it's practical for you, but I'd move the desk out from the wall and put the speakers on stands behind the desk so that the listening distance is about 2.5 to 3 meters. If that's not practical, then I'd consider some inexpensive powered monitors (Kali?) that will work on a desktop. That may even be cheaper than new electronics.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Hi

My preferred listening position is similar, and I also listen to classical music all day in my private study. I've experimented with subwoofers, but didn't find them beneficial in this situation. Quite apart from the fact that the desk is stimulated to vibrate too much.

Wafting and rumbling background noises suddenly become audible on classical concert recordings, which are otherwise much less annoying. Vinyl doesn't work at all, all the way down is rumbling. Especially when recording organ concerts, I had hoped for better reproduction in the lower registers, but the sound is not clearly clearer here either. What is found at the lower end of the frequency band on recordings made with microphones often seems to be just sonic garbage.

 

[Marc v E]

Hi

My preferred listening position is similar, and I also listen to classical music all day in my private study. I've experimented with subwoofers, but didn't find them beneficial in this situation. Quite apart from the fact that the desk is stimulated to vibrate too much.

Wafting and rumbling background noises suddenly become audible on classical concert recordings, which are otherwise much less annoying. Vinyl doesn't work at all, all the way down is rumbling. Especially when recording organ concerts, I had hoped for better reproduction in the lower registers, but the sound is not clearly clearer here either. What is found at the lower end of the frequency band on recordings made with microphones often seems to be just sonic garbage.

View attachment 252582

That is a great looking setup! Are those Neumann speakers?

During work time I have Genelecs 8030a on my desk. It looks very similar to your setup. I do think however that the way to get more out of such a situation is getting slightly bigger speakers (or a sub, although it seems it doesn't work for you.)

 

[computer-audiophile]

That is a great looking setup! Are those Neumann speakers?

Yes, they are Neumann KH120a which I have used 10 years now. I've replaced them with JBL 305P MK II monitors these days. You may not be able to understand this change, since the speakers are in different price ranges. I'll try to explain it again briefly.

My wife, who is also an audiophile, uses the JBL 305P MK II in her piano room. Sometimes when I would walk into her room and hear some piano music, I'd think well, those little JBLs sound surprisingly good too, despite being so inexpensive, kind of fuller and with more bass, without really missing detail. So I decided to sell the KH120 as I don't know how much longer they would last. And now I'm also listening with these little JBL monitors that I just bought new. Incidentally, I still have large JBL Studio 590 loudspeakers in my music room, which are able to make great cinema-sound without the need for a subwoofer.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Ich habe die DAC-Rezensionen gelesen. Gibt es hier irgendwo eine Liste mit empfohlenen Komponenten? Wenn nicht, was ist der "beste" preiswerte DAC in letzter Zeit basierend auf Messungen? Bringt ein neuer DAC tatsächlich eine hörbare Verbesserung gegenüber meinem alten Röhren-DAC

Hi, are you from Japan?

Because one of my DACs broke, I found out about the objective status of things in the ASR forum and bought three different TOPPING DACs to try out. I also have a scientific education myself and worked for a long time in basic physical research.

For example, today I use a TOPPING e30II at my near-field listening position. Compared to my older DACs, the specifications are significantly better and the sound is a bit different. Incidentally, I also like the devices from Line Magnetic and I also owned some of them. I haven't had a DAC with tubes yet, because that doesn't suit my digital concept.

In another setup I also have vinyl records and tubes.

 

[rfj1862]

If this is your preference, but those speaker are probably built to be listened from a greater distance. They are also way to close to each other, as well as too close to the back wall. Another handicap is that they are in the corner of the room. Correct placement increases the quality of your experience the most in my opinion.

Yes I realize that the placement of the left speaker in the corner isn't ideal but it is literally the only place I can put these. I bought them before I moved into this house and this office. However, the studio I bought them from was using them near-field and I understand that a number of other professional audio engineers have used them this way. They are toed in to focus just behind my head. The speakers are sealed so I don't have any issues with a port on the back farting out bass. I will say that despite the placement the imaging is centered appropriately.

I have another set of possibly more appropriate high-quality bookshelf speakers with concentric drivers that are in my living room. I tried them years ago and they did not sound as good as these. When I get my mic I'll measure both but if I recall correctly the Lipinskys were far more subjectively pleasing in this setting. Obviously I have no idea which one measures better.

I may be wrong about this but I feel like the normal rules of speaker placement go out the window if you are listening near field. It's a much more headphone-like experience.

I would suggest you buy a Umik-1 microphone (100 dollar). Then using REW, measure your system. Then apply eq to get a good frequency response.

I bought a microphone and will figure out REW shortly. One question I have is that if I am listening near-field am I not primarily listening to the speakers with minimal effects from the room? So wouldn't I be primarily measuring the performance of my speakers?

BTW, in stark contrast to the speaker setup, the Blue Yeti mic sitting on the desk is woefully normcore. For the love of $higher being of choice, at least give the poor thing a decent boom arm (Rode PSA-1 or something) and a shockmount.

Thank you for this input, I'm sure that everyone wearing earbuds on my Zoom calls will appreciate the enhanced fidelity.

 

[Marc v E]

I bought a microphone and will figure out REW shortly. One question I have is that if I am listening near-field am I not primarily listening to the speakers with minimal effects from the room? So wouldn't I be primarily measuring the performance of my speakers?

Well, all I can say is that using eq made quite a dramatic effect when using it on my 8030 on the desktop. They are 1m from my listening position. Imo it is the greatest change except using different speakers.

If I look at the photo you provided my first impression is that you're also hearing reflections from the walls directly in front of you. Not only from the speakers directly.
One other thing I would be looking at is speakers and sub integration.
Rew will give you direct feedback on these points.