How to feed split frequency signals into single speaker

[gantry]

Greetings,

Great forum. First-time poster - sorry if I'm in wrong category.

I have an older CD-player/amp combination (Panasonic sa-pm193) that I want to use for a specific application. Though it is a stereo system, each stereo channel is divided into high and low frequencies, each with separate speaker outputs. That is, each stereo channel has outputs for two speakers: a high-frequency (tweeter) and a low-frequency (actually a mid-range). So, meant to use four speakers.

The problem is that I want to feed the hi and low outputs for each stereo channel into one (full-range) speaker. So, I would then have a two-speaker system. But, not sure how best to accomplish this.

An obvious route would be to just jump the plus to the plus, and minus to minus, for each stereo channel. It seems to me that this should be okay but I didn't want to risk either amp or speakers without an educated opinion.

Thanks for help, and for any better idea if required.

 

[Doodski]

Do NOT jump them together! You will need 2-way speakers to connect to the amp if you want to use both outputs from the amp.

 

[dualazmak]

If you would use DSP software in upstream PC or MAC, you can easily establish "Quasi-(or Pseudo-)Multichannel Time-Aligned Stereo System" even using single stereo DAC (ASIO routing) + single stereo amp + passive (LCR network) SP system, as shown in this diagram;

As for the SP system, you may also use your full-range SP (with or without CLR crossover network in it) instead of the 3-way passive one shown in the above diagram.

Of course, you can easily control/tune the relative gains (as tone control) of the crossover-ed four channels by the DSP software, if needed.

JRiver MC (or Roon) or other software player can work as the Master Volume Controller. If you would like, you may use the built-in DSP features of JRiver MC or Roon, but at least myself always like to use independent outer DSP software (in my case "EKIO") as system-wide DSP center which should receive all the digital audio signal from any of other software including web browsers.

I actually operate this signal path in my small office upstairs with single stereo DAC + single stereo integrated amp + L&R 3-way passive SP + L&R small subwoofers, and the system works quite nicely for usual daily HiFi music listening in my office room.

(As for the latest setup of the "real" DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active audio system at my listening room, please refer to my post here on my project thread.)

 

[DonH56]

Greetings,

Great forum. First-time poster - sorry if I'm in wrong category.

I have an older CD-player/amp combination (Panasonic sa-pm193) that I want to use for a specific application. Though it is a stereo system, each stereo channel is divided into high and low frequencies, each with separate speaker outputs. That is, each stereo channel has outputs for two speakers: a high-frequency (tweeter) and a low-frequency (actually a mid-range). So, meant to use four speakers.

The problem is that I want to feed the hi and low outputs for each stereo channel into one (full-range) speaker. So, I would then have a two-speaker system. But, not sure how best to accomplish this.

An obvious route would be to just jump the plus to the plus, and minus to minus, for each stereo channel. It seems to me that this should be okay but I didn't want to risk either amp or speakers without an educated opinion.

Thanks for help, and for any better idea if required.

There is no easy way that will work well. Shorting the two outputs ties two amplifier outputs together and would probably destroy them both. All-in-one systems like that often have uncommon speaker characteristics (impedance, frequency response) so you'd have to get something comparable with bi-amp jumpers you could remove. Is there some reason you cannot use the speakers that came with it? What is your application?

 

[wwenze]

Just add an 8-ohm resistor in series to each amplifier's output. And if your amp is bridged you need the resistors on the negative terminals too. It should be rated for at least whatever watt you intend to push out. Probably needs heatsinking but for low-power listeners the usual white rectangular ones can be sufficient.

Also, this kind of modifications has 1) A chance of kaboom and 2) A chance of the end result sucking even if it doesn't kaboom. I would still do it if I want to do it if I know why I want to do it.

 

[radix]

Greetings,

Great forum. First-time poster - sorry if I'm in wrong category.

I have an older CD-player/amp combination (Panasonic sa-pm193) that I want to use for a specific application. Though it is a stereo system, each stereo channel is divided into high and low frequencies, each with separate speaker outputs. That is, each stereo channel has outputs for two speakers: a high-frequency (tweeter) and a low-frequency (actually a mid-range). So, meant to use four speakers.

The problem is that I want to feed the hi and low outputs for each stereo channel into one (full-range) speaker. So, I would then have a two-speaker system. But, not sure how best to accomplish this.

An obvious route would be to just jump the plus to the plus, and minus to minus, for each stereo channel. It seems to me that this should be okay but I didn't want to risk either amp or speakers without an educated opinion.

Thanks for help, and for any better idea if required.

What speaker? Many speakers have 2 binding posts each (HF / MF+LF). Any "biamp" speaker should work. Of course, if your system has a different idea of crossover frequency than the speaker designer, no bets on how it would sound.

According to the manual, it has a 3 kHz crossover. https://www.manualslib.com/manual/117607/Panasonic-Sc-Pm19.html?page=28#manual

 

[gantry]

Thanks to all for the help. Sounds like a unanimous verdict: bad idea.

I had hoped that jumping the pluses and minuses for each channel would be like wiring batteries in parallel -- increase power but not short circuit anything. It's back to audio-101 for me.

Simplicity is my goal here. I'll just add another set of speakers and stack them together.

I bought the unit at a thrift store -- no speakers, no remote. I had never seen anything like it: an all-in-one desktop CD player that held multiple discs. The controls were straight forward and it had a big, analog-type, volume knob right in front.

The object is to hammer together a CD player for a relation with advancing dementia. This person loves music but cannot load the discs or use the controls on the simplest boom-box or component system. On this machine I can pre-load the discs and cover up all but a very few necessary buttons to operate. We'll see how it works. Thanks for the help.

 

[DonH56]

Wiring batteries in parallel is not always a good thing either (load-sharing is an issue).

Why not look into a streaming device/system using a local (USB/Ethernet connected) disc drive? Maybe a tablet for control? Depends on your technical savvy, but some sort of simple system with a control knob might be a good solution. I have SONOS but my wife still refuses to deal with the app (which I think very easy to use).

 

[Zek]

I'll just add another set of speakers and stack them together.

How do you intend to put it all together?

You can look for speakers that have a bi-wiring connection and remove the jumpers and connect the highs and lows separately to your device.

 

[radix]

Thanks to all for the help. Sounds like a unanimous verdict: bad idea.

I had hoped that jumping the pluses and minuses for each channel would be like wiring batteries in parallel -- increase power but not short circuit anything. It's back to audio-101 for me.

Simplicity is my goal here. I'll just add another set of speakers and stack them together.

I bought the unit at a thrift store -- no speakers, no remote. I had never seen anything like it: an all-in-one desktop CD player that held multiple discs. The controls were straight forward and it had a big, analog-type, volume knob right in front.

The object is to hammer together a CD player for a relation with advancing dementia. This person loves music but cannot load the discs or use the controls on the simplest boom-box or component system. On this machine I can pre-load the discs and cover up all but a very few necessary buttons to operate. We'll see how it works. Thanks for the help.

There are other systems on ebay. There's even a Panasonic SA-PM193 for $62, but you could probably even offer them $40 or $60, and get a whole system with speakers.

The box you have will not sound good with only 2 speaker connections, with it's 3 kHz crossover.

 

[Cbdb2]

Any idea what the xover frequency is. Can you change it? If not you will have to find a speaker that has the same xover freq. as the amp. Are the gains the same for the high and low freq. amps?
If the gain is the same, (run a tone at the xover f and measure the 2 outs). you MIGHT get away with tying them together with a small balancing resistor, 1 ohm. Depends on the phase relation at the xover freq..

 

[gantry]

I totally love the enthusiasm and attitude of everyone. Just the fact that you have kept me from blowing out my (five-dollar) amp is worth the price of admission. But I am sorry to report that approaching this as an audiophile is not on the agenda.

I currently have a beefy set of bass-ported desktop speakers hooked to the low-range feeds, and a lighter set of desktops containing dome tweeters on the high-range feeds. And (sorry, again) it sounds pretty darn good to me. Listening to Bach organ fugues I get plenty of bass, high pipes, and volume.

More important at the moment is that the controls are obvious, and that the machine be jam-proof. I have covered up every unnecessary button, leaving only the on/off, and the five that select the CD. So far, no matter how I power on-off, and switch CDs, I haven't been able to get it to crash. I'll set it up for my mom next week and will surely find out what I've missed!

It seems to me, by the way, that there is a huge opportunity here for some entrepreneur-type. The CD, or other music, players that I've seen offered for Alzheimer's/dementia sufferers are mostly useless; hype and wishful thinking. It's a market that, sadly, is only going to grow. Maybe that's a new thread -- and maybe for a different forum.

Thanks so much for the suggestions.

 

[Hayabusa]

How do you intend to put it all together?

You can look for speakers that have a bi-wiring connection and remove the jumpers and connect the highs and lows separately to your device.

Only works if the x-over freq matches, the device has 3KHz x-over

 

[popej]

There is services manual for SA-PM19 available in net. Probably the same or very similar as 193. It uses active crossover and 4 amplifiers for speakers. You can disable LP filter for woofer and use low frequency outputs for full range speakers. You need only to remove 4 capacitors, see attached picture. But check first if hardware is really the same