How the heck does Devialet do it?

[richard12511]

Vertical dispersion is important to me and non-coaxial speakers sound broken off axis for my use cases in a living room.

I just look at the Devialet as having wide dispersion with roll off. If they had a sub for $2500 and two reactors can be had for $2500, then we're at 1/3 the price of new Genelec monitors+subwoofer.

If my OLED TV color shifted as much as most speakers do when I stand up to get water, grab food, a remote, etc. I'd return it and buy something where the engineers paid attention to such an obvious issue that could be fixed without an audible drawback.

The Kii Three and Dutch & Dutch 8C are two such speakers. Can't accept a crippling issue (lobeing) that is so abundantly apparent in the measurements, yet the engineers simply can't be bothered.

90% of the time I'm sure they'd be incredible, and a notable upgrade... But when I'm playing Mario Kart sitting on the floor with cousins, or doing yoga, or lying on the couch, or standing up to get more food, I think I'd wish I had the Phantoms and not something that intermittently sounds physically broken. At the price and not having that issue for me counts for a lot for the Phantoms, but I'm sure many aren't bothered by irregular vertical dispersion as much.

Yeah but the 8260 is coax too, and measures better(smoother and controls directivity much lower). I still don’t see how Phantoms + subs would be preferable to 8260s + subs(talking strictly sound quality), which was the only part of your post I’m replying too. Maybe you weren’t talking strictly sound quality?

PS: I love the coax thing too. Whenever I start listening to music for too long, my dog inevitably drags me down to the floor to play. It’s nice that the sound isn’t ruined when sitting on the floor .

 

[preload]

I listened to a pair of Phantoms in a pop up demo room at a shopping mall on the way to dinner. This was maybe 6 yrs ago. I got to sit in the MLP and play familiar selections. I chose Taylor Swift.

What immediately struck me, and others have mentioned this, was just how distorted the bass was. I don't care how good the unit measures from a FR standpoint, the bass made the whole thing unlistenable. My second impression I had was what a nice overpriced gimmick. It sounded "okay" but nothing amazing at all. It's nothing in the territory of the Genelec, Revel, or B&W compact monitors I'm familiar with except for perhaps bass extension, ignoring distortion.

The fact that the Phantoms apparently "measure well" was surprising to me, and continues to support the fact that the people's ability to eyeball various FR charts in order to predict listening impressions is not as good as they think it is. The science isn't close to being perfect, and humans can't analyze at a computational level necessary to get close. I'm surprised nobody is gushing at the controlled off axis response and predicting Salon2-like SQ, but then again I haven't read through all 6 pages.

 

[YSC]

I listened to a pair of Phantoms in a pop up demo room at a shopping mall on the way to dinner. This was maybe 6 yrs ago. I got to sit in the MLP and play familiar selections. I chose Taylor Swift.

What immediately struck me, and others have mentioned this, was just how distorted the bass was. I don't care how good the unit measures from a FR standpoint, the bass made the whole thing unlistenable. My second impression I had was what a nice overpriced gimmick. It sounded "okay" but nothing amazing at all. It's nothing in the territory of the Genelec, Revel, or B&W compact monitors I'm familiar with except for perhaps bass extension, ignoring distortion.

The fact that the Phantoms apparently "measure well" was surprising to me, and continues to support the fact that the people's ability to eyeball various FR charts in order to predict listening impressions is not as good as they think it is. The science isn't close to being perfect, and humans can't analyze at a computational level necessary to get close. I'm surprised nobody is gushing at the controlled off axis response and predicting Salon2-like SQ, but then again I haven't read through all 6 pages.

I just wonders, are the Demo room ones properly located? for demo room I bet the room is pretty open and not really having wall boost of bass and they likely turned the thing way too loud for attention seeking in a mall?

 

[RoA]

PS: I love the coax thing too. Whenever I start listening to music for too long, my dog inevitably drags me down to the floor to play. It’s nice that the sound isn’t ruined when sitting on the floor .

My girlfriend does that too. Very irritating.

 

[onion]

The stereo imaging of the Phantoms is poor compared to Genelec Ones - not in the same ballpark.

 

[preload]

I just wonders, are the Demo room ones properly located? for demo room I bet the room is pretty open and not really having wall boost of bass and they likely turned the thing way too loud for attention seeking in a mall?

If I remember correctly, the pop-up demo room was completely glass-enclosed. The salesperson did "turn it up" (a common sales tactic), and I immediately had the volumes adjusted to my normal listening level. Now that I'm thinking back, it's possible the "in-room" bass response was not even either, which didn't help things, but there was definitely distortion too.

 

[stevenswall]

I think the question should be why Devialet makes them so ugly. I've never heard them and I'm sure they sound fantastic, but I simply can't stand the look of them.

Funny enough, my roommates love the look. I think I do too in black.

 

[stevenswall]

Yeah but the 8260 is coax too, and measures better(smoother and controls directivity much lower). I still don’t see how Phantoms + subs would be preferable to 8260s + subs(talking strictly sound quality), which was the only part of your post I’m replying too. Maybe you weren’t talking strictly sound quality?

PS: I love the coax thing too. Whenever I start listening to music for too long, my dog inevitably drags me down to the floor to play. It’s nice that the sound isn’t ruined when sitting on the floor .

Yeah, if price is not included I'd go for Genelec every time. They also have pats for 20+ year old speakers and can be repaired in the rare event they break.

 

[stevenswall]

What immediately struck me, and others have mentioned this, was just how distorted the bass was.

How high was the volume? They do compress the bass a bit as volume goes up, but I don't think I listen as loud as most and didn't hear enough distortion in regular use to be bothered by it.

 

[RoA]

What immediately struck me, and others have mentioned this, was just how distorted the bass was.

How did that manifest itself?

 

[Frank Dernie]

I have owned Phantoms for 6 years and haven't found any marked shortcomings in SQ particularly for the price.
They are a fraction of the price of Dutch & Dutch 8C which would be the nearest better equivalent IMHO.
The only things I don't like is having to use my computer to control volume and the only inputs being optical.
It gets too loud before any audible distortion sets in and on organ music it is laughably better than a load of speakers I have heard that are many times the size.
I believe the bass starts to roll off at the deepest frequencies at volumes over 70 on the volume control but I don't listen louder than that anyway.

 

[Koeitje]

Funny enough, my roommates love the look. I think I do too in black.

The black version looks a lot better indeed.

 

[leonroy]

I have owned Phantoms for 6 years...

Any technical issues with the units requiring warranty service?

 

[preload]

How did that manifest itself?

How did the bass distortion "manifest" itself? Well, the way I would describe it would be a series of flatulent noises whereby I was anticipating the salesperson to offer an "excuse me" but it turned out it was actually coming from the Phantoms. Would you like additional detail?

 

[Frank Dernie]

Any technical issues with the units requiring warranty service?

I did get sent a new Dialog box early on when there was a "recall".
The speakers have been brilliant for the money.
I don't like streaming though and playing a CD is a bit of a pain since I need to have some sort of device (computer, tablet or phone) to adjust the volume. There was an independent volume control available but i didn't buy it.

 

[RoA]

How did the bass distortion "manifest" itself? Well, the way I would describe it would be a series of flatulent noises whereby I was anticipating the salesperson to offer an "excuse me" but it turned out it was actually coming from the Phantoms. Would you like additional detail?

Most folks will not be able to identify bass distortion/doubling unless/until a driver hits the stops. It just sounds softer until then.

I thought Devialet limit power to the drivers to prevent this from happening no?

 

[stevenswall]

How did the bass distortion "manifest" itself? Well, the way I would describe it would be a series of flatulent noises whereby I was anticipating the salesperson to offer an "excuse me" but it turned out it was actually coming from the Phantoms. Would you like additional detail?

Yes. They don't normally sounds like that, and are limited so that, while the bass will not go as high (kind of like following an equal loudness contour where the bass is flatter at high volumes and relatively higher to the rest of the frequencies as lower volumes) at high volumes, they are limited so they don't bottom out.

I wonder if driven near the limits at the shop they can break over time.

 

[RoA]

Yes. They don't normally sounds like that, and are limited so that, while the bass will not go as high (kind of like following an equal loudness contour where the bass is flatter at high volumes and relatively higher to the rest of the frequencies as lower volumes) at high volumes, they are limited so they don't bottom out.

I wonder if driven near the limits at the shop they can break over time.

I think Preload tried to be a little dramatic in his description

 

[Phantomuser]

My Phantoms have been played at 100% volume many many times at parties before getting turned down to a more reasonable 70.
Only problems Ive had were with the neighbours not the speakers!

 

[Piranesi]

I listened to a pair of Phantoms in a pop up demo room at a shopping mall on the way to dinner. This was maybe 6 yrs ago. I got to sit in the MLP and play familiar selections. I chose Taylor Swift.

What immediately struck me, and others have mentioned this, was just how distorted the bass was. I don't care how good the unit measures from a FR standpoint, the bass made the whole thing unlistenable. My second impression I had was what a nice overpriced gimmick. It sounded "okay" but nothing amazing at all. It's nothing in the territory of the Genelec, Revel, or B&W compact monitors I'm familiar with except for perhaps bass extension, ignoring distortion.

The fact that the Phantoms apparently "measure well" was surprising to me, and continues to support the fact that the people's ability to eyeball various FR charts in order to predict listening impressions is not as good as they think it is. The science isn't close to being perfect, and humans can't analyze at a computational level necessary to get close. I'm surprised nobody is gushing at the controlled off axis response and predicting Salon2-like SQ, but then again I haven't read through all 6 pages.

That's because Devialet has absolutely terrible listening rooms for product demos.

They value the aesthetics of big, empty white rooms more than their absolutely horrific impact on sound quality. Room acoustics are vital to a decent listening experience.