how much headphone amp is enough???

[hawk01]

hello folks!

the headphone newbie here once again with a typical inquiry. as the title suggests the obvious let me fill in the starting point. laptop source with foobar2000 + equalizer APO PEACE + smsl sanskrit 10th mk2 dac + topping L30 amp + headphones. i started out using a hand me down samson SR850 which is supposedly similar spec’d to the superlux HD668B. topping L30 driving it pretty loud at only 0dB middle gain setting. now comes the hifiman HE400i 2020 which according to many reviews is an easy to drive entry level planar magnetic. oh how i beg to somewhat disagree. while this thing sounds amazing at what is does the L30 has to be at high gain +9dB volume knob near 2-3pm max out depending on dynamic material. it seems as if i can squeeze out more potential out of the planars if i had more juice on tap. this it whole new experience for me where differences between HPs are more apparent coming from typical two channel speakers.

to those of you who have a depth of experience and wisdom in headphones what is your take on planar magnetics? to me it seems they are inherently more difficult to drive compared to dynamic drivers. contrary to what subjective reviewers claim about the HE400i. if i had something with double the output of the L30 will i be able to exploit the potential to properly drive the planars?

 

[hawk01]

hello folks!

the headphone newbie here once again with a typical inquiry. as the title suggests the obvious let me fill in the starting point. laptop source with foobar2000 + smsl sanskrit 10th mk2 dac + topping L30 amp + headphones. i started out using a hand me down samson SR850 which is supposedly similar spec’d to the superlux HD668B. topping L30 driving it pretty loud at only 0dB middle gain setting. now comes the hifiman HE400i 2020 which according to many reviews is an easy to drive entry level planar magnetic. oh how i beg to somewhat disagree. while this thing sounds amazing at what is does the L30 has to be at high gain +9dB volume knob near 2-3pm max out depending on dynamic material. it seems as if i can squeeze out more potential out of the planars if i had more juice on tap. this it whole new experience for me where differences between HPs are more apparent coming from typical two channel speakers.

to those of you who have a depth of experience and wisdom in headphones what is your take on planar magnetics? to me it seems they are inherently more difficult to drive compared to dynamic drivers. contrary to what subjective reviewers claim about the HE400i. if i had something with double the output of the L30 will i be able to exploit the potential to properly drive the planars?

for reference listen to the track below. this thing will beg you to turn the knob all the way to kingdom come!

 

[3125b]

Are you sure you have Windows configured right?
The 400i 2020 has 35 ohms impedance and 93dB/mW sensitivity. The Sanskrit MKII puts out 2.2Vrms, the high gain of the L30 is 3x, therefor giving you 6.6Vrms maximum output. That would be good for 124dBSPL peak wich is near the maximum power rating for the headphone anyway.
In unity gain it should still reach 114dBSPL peak.
The song you chose has 14dB dynamic range with a low of -21.4dB and a high of -3.6dB (according to DR database for the CD version).
The issue has to be somewhere else.

 

[hawk01]

hmm either something is amiss or i am going deaf already. from the windows side all the sound management settings seem to be in good order at max output. the dac level is also maxed in dac mode. the only thing i suspect is the preamp setting of equalizer APO PEACE interface. following the PEQ settings in ASR indicates a value of -5.3 but this is limited in order to prevent clipping as it adjusts accordingly when the prevent clipping tab is ticked.

 

[ninetylol]

hmm either something is amiss or i am going deaf already. from the windows side all the sound management settings seem to be in good order at max output. the dac level is also maxed in dac mode. the only thing i suspect is the preamp setting of equalizer APO PEACE interface. following the PEQ settings in ASR indicates a value of -5.3 but this is limited in order to prevent clipping as it adjusts accordingly when the prevent clipping tab is ticked.

Nope, preamp lowers all signal by the specified amount, working like intended.

Still sounds like you are listening way too loud.

 

[hawk01]

Nope, preamp lowers all signal by the specified amount, working like intended.

Still sounds like you are listening way too loud.

i seriously need to get my hearing checked at 50yrs of age. i am already aware of the greatly diminished acuity for the HF material. but i did have an acceptable hearing test from my last exam just a few short years ago for my pilot’s license. hmm must be retirement taking its toll! cheers!

 

[Nichdroid]

With the same headphone, driving them with a JDS Atom I'm experiencing the same thing. Mind you, that happens only with very few tracks of my Blue Rays acoustical and classical music recorded with very low loudness level... In that scenarios I have to crank up the pot all the way up to 3-4 o'clock in high gain. The result is indeed really uncomfortably loud, but I'd like to have plenty of juice available even for the worst case scenario...
With high loudness recorded music I cannot max my Atom even in low gain, or I think my head would explode long before...

 

[Jimbob54]

for reference listen to the track below. this thing will beg you to turn the knob all the way to kingdom come!

OK- do you use youtube as your source or local files or one of the streamer services?

I suspect you might have volume levelling on somewhere, as well as the obvious -5dB on your pre-amp EQ.

How loud is the L30 when you disable all the DSP settings playing the same sources? Different sources? Work it backwards- find some other source to plug into your DAC. What about feeding the L30 from your phone?

 

[hawk01]

my sources are spotify connect and mostly flac files in the laptop. as far as volume levels there is no discernible huge difference across all sources. obviously there is a slight level increase when i disable peace equalizer due to the -5 gain. for the time being i am suspecting the slight level differences at which the material was recorded could be the reason for me to suspect. more so other material just beg you to crank up the volume knob to insane levels due to its sheer energy. the link i included herewith as no exception. otherwise most of the material i listen just fine with 0dB middle setting on the L30.

 

[Jimbob54]

my sources are spotify connect and mostly flac files in the laptop. as far as volume levels there is no discernible huge difference across all sources. obviously there is a slight level increase when i disable peace equalizer due to the -5 gain. for the time being i am suspecting the slight level differences at which the material was recorded could be the reason for me to suspect. more so other material just beg you to crank up the volume knob to insane levels due to its sheer energy. the link i included herewith as no exception. otherwise most of the material i listen just fine with 0dB middle setting on the L30.

I meant, does any of your players have the "volume levelling" setting turned on? Many, including streaming apps, do. This might mean some tracks get automatically levelled down, further increasing the demands on the amp if you seek high levels.

 

[hawk01]

OK- do you use youtube as your source or local files or one of the streamer services?

I suspect you might have volume levelling on somewhere, as well as the obvious -5dB on your pre-amp EQ.

How loud is the L30 when you disable all the DSP settings playing the same sources? Different sources? Work it backwards- find some other source to plug into your DAC. What about feeding the L30 from your phone?

hmm worth trying to hook the ipad directly to the amp just to discern any difference.

 

[Jimbob54]

hmm worth trying to hook the ipad directly to the amp just to discern any difference.

Dig around in your various player softwares for settings like these : if enabled, disable.

 

[hawk01]

I meant, does any of your players have the "volume levelling" setting turned on? Many, including streaming apps, do. This might mean some tracks get automatically levelled down, further increasing the demands on the amp if you seek high levels.

oh i believe spotify does have such feature! i will need to check this one out. otherwise foobar and peace equalizer may not be suspecf of this volume levelling issue. incidentally it is only via spotify where i encounter this issue! perhaps this could be the culprit.

 

[Jimbob54]

oh i believe spotify does have such feature! i will need to check this one out. otherwise foobar and peace equalizer may not be suspecf of this volume levelling issue. incidentally it is only via spotify where i encounter this issue! perhaps this could be the culprit.

Foobar will have such a setting too. Probably called something different

 

[hawk01]

Foobar will have such a setting too. Probably called something different

dang have to navigate through the foobar gauntlet menu again!

 

[ninetylol]

If you want to preserve DR and sound quality, you should disable those first thing anyway

 

[hawk01]

If you want to preserve DR and sound quality, you should disable those first thing anyway

now i know what those things are for, and why they do more harm for my intended use!

 

[hawk01]

i think this is it for spotify audio normalization disabled now

 

[hawk01]

Are you sure you have Windows configured right?
The 400i 2020 has 35 ohms impedance and 93dB/mW sensitivity. The Sanskrit MKII puts out 2.2Vrms, the high gain of the L30 is 3x, therefor giving you 6.6Vrms maximum output. That would be good for 124dBSPL peak wich is near the maximum power rating for the headphone anyway.
In unity gain it should still reach 114dBSPL peak.
The song you chose has 14dB dynamic range with a low of -21.4dB and a high of -3.6dB (according to DR database for the CD version).
The issue has to be somewhere else.

i have so far disabled the spotify “audio normalization feature” which is our suspect killing the DR of playback material. i have also checked foobar2000 for the same feature which they refer to as “replaygain” and it is likewise disabled and was not enabled by default after checking the menu. the last link which i need to confirm is windows 10 itself. under what menu could they have this feature???

 

[hawk01]

@3125b on the other hand i think i may have chanced upon this feature in windows10. they call it “loudness equalization” so i need to disable this in order to preserve the DR? pardon my ignorance coz it is only now that i was made aware of these otherwise benign features to the layman user which does not bode well from an audio quality perspective.