How important are speaker stands (bookshelves)

[JeremyFife]

Hi All,
I'm learning loads here, and saving an absolute fortune! It's still tricky to separate out the sensible system changes from the mythical ones ...

One subject that I'm not clear on: how important are rigid/damped speaker supports? I get that speakers are the problem child (transparent DAC and amp just do their job) and that their interaction with the room is key (hence EQ and treatment)

How important is it to hold those speakers still i.e stands. Floorsanders Floorstanders (!) are out for me, In this room. My speakers are wall mounted currently and this, plus a sub, is the next area for me to look at

Thanks for your help

 

[alex-z]

All that matters is they put the speakers at ear level, and don't resonate. You don't fancy materials or feet, mine are built out of spare MDF and don't colour the sound. If you have children or pets that might knock them over, add sand or concrete to the base to make them heavy.

The location of the speakers within the room, and the acoustic treatment is absolutely critical. You want to absorb the SBIR dip, diffuse the sound off the rear wall, and then absorbers throughout the room so that all frequencies have an equal decay time.

SBIR calculator

SBIR calculator

tripp.com.au

 

[JeremyFife]

All that matters is they put the speakers at ear level, and don't resonate. You don't fancy materials or feet, mine are built out of spare MDF and don't colour the sound. If you have children or pets that might knock them over, add sand or concrete to the base to make them heavy.

The location of the speakers within the room, and the acoustic treatment is absolutely critical. You want to absorb the SBIR dip, diffuse the sound off the rear wall, and then absorbers throughout the room so that all frequencies have an equal decay time.

SBIR calculator

SBIR calculator

tripp.com.au

Thanks for that ... would you mind clarifying what you mean by "don't resonate"?

 

[alex-z]

Thanks for that ... would you mind clarifying what you mean by "don't resonate"?

They don't store energy aka ring. This is why you will see some people fill hollow steel stands with materials like sand, or even lead shot. Although even those hollow stands rarely cause audible problems, it is more of a preventative measure than an actual requirement.

 

[freemansteve]

I've tried all combinations - floor standing, stands and wall mounts. You don't need them at ear level, just pointing at you is fine.

A problem with anything rear-ported is correct positioning away from walls, but you can only experiment to see what sounds a good compromise, trying with various music tracks, as all rooms are different. There is no magic bullet, not even things like Dirac live-type EQ.

Wall-mounting or literally placing on shelves seems to always require blocking rear port, as the speakers are always far too close to the walls. But you lose a lot of bass, so have to add subs!

The problem with smallish speakers on stands is that although you can get clear of walls (a metre away is a common minimum distance - not great in a small room), the stands basically take up space where IMHO, I'd want subs, as most small speakers miss an octave or two of proper bass.

At risk of being flamed, I'd prefer good floor standers, and my second choice is wall mount brackets, plugged rear port (if present) and subs. Small speakers on stands out into the room would be ruled out by my wife. The mileage of other folk may vary...

 

[GalZohar]

I think the main benefit of stands is the ability to place the speaker at an optimal position and not tie it to any furniture or pre-defined locations, and allow you to keep it away from other obstacles. Being a stable platform is a bonus.

 

[Chrispy]

I'd prefer speakers on stands away from wall vs wall mounted myself, but you say floorstanders are out so not sure what you're asking as a speaker on a stand would be placed similarly to a floorstander.... How rigid/damped a stand needs to be isn't a particular issue IME. Are you concerned with rigidity and damping of your wall mount?

 

[GalZohar]

Yes the floor space is the same for both stands similarly sized floorstanders... The only space saving with bookshelves is if you place them on existing furniture, in which case you won't be able to do much about optimizing their location, which is probably by far the biggest disadvantage of such placement (plus there could be vibrations/resonances of whatever they're placed on, but I think that's minor in comparison).

 

[JeremyFife]

I'd prefer speakers on stands away from wall vs wall mounted myself, but you say floorstanders are out so not sure what you're asking as a speaker on a stand would be placed similarly to a floorstander.... How rigid/damped a stand needs to be isn't a particular issue IME. Are you concerned with rigidity and damping of your wall mount?

Hi, thanks for that. Yes, I am concerned that my wall mounts are not rigid: https://www.btechavmounts.com/product-range/products/bt77

But, having had to unlearn so much since I joined here, I'm not sure how much that matters

 

[GalZohar]

I have the bt77 for the surrounds and they are definitely not rigid. One day I wish to strengthen/dampen them in some way. But for surrounds it's not that bad. I probably wouldn't use them for mains, even if we ignore the placement issues that apply to any wall mount.

 

[JeremyFife]

I have the bt77 for the surrounds and they are definitely not rigid. One day I wish to strengthen/dampen them in some way. But for surrounds it's not that bad. I probably wouldn't use them for mains, even if we ignore the placement issues that apply to any wall mount.

Any recommendations for decent wall mounts? It's really my only option just now.

I'm happy with the sound now (bloomin marvelous actually) and measuring with REW and trying EQ are going to keep me busy anyway. If a simple change of wall mount will help too then that's grand.

 

[GalZohar]

Any recommendations for decent wall mounts? It's really my only option just now.

I'm happy with the sound now (bloomin marvelous actually) and measuring with REW and trying EQ are going to keep me busy anyway. If a simple change of wall mount will help too then that's grand.

Sorry, I use the bt77 because I couldn't find anything that seemed better, and those are the only mounts I have. If I touch the speaker it swings a bit along with the mount... The part that is anchored to the wall actually seems pretty solid, I think it's the actual plate on which the speaker rests which has the flexibility.

 

[DVDdoug]

Speaker stands are mostly for getting the speakers in the right location (away from the walls and at the right height). But in the real world (in home environments) there are often other considerations and if you have "bookshelf" speakers you're probably already compromising.

how important are rigid/damped speaker supports?

Not important - Ethan Winer - Testing Loudspeaker Isolation Products.

 

[Vacceo]

I have my bookshelves, well, on a bookshelf. I use no stands and since they are front ported, I have books around them. Am I doing it right?

 

[Chrispy]

Hi, thanks for that. Yes, I am concerned that my wall mounts are not rigid: https://www.btechavmounts.com/product-range/products/bt77

But, having had to unlearn so much since I joined here, I'm not sure how much that matters

I have some of those mounts, have used them for surrounds, found them a lot sturdier than some others (and wouldn't worry about them particularly unless you've not been able to mount them to studs or something). These look pretty nice, though

 

[WinWiz]

I use these for my dynaudio dm 2/6 and they doesn't wobble at all

 

[Keened]

I wonder how much difference they make with reflections off the surface they're resting on.

It seems pretty well settled that they have limited benefit on the actual sound emanating from the speakers themselves, if the cabinet is vibrating sufficiently to be noticeably audible you have too much resonance or you're doing something wrong somewhere.

We know they can prevent resonance in other things coupled to the speaker like the surface underneath it, which may have audible benefits.

We also know that they can raise directional sensitive drivers to the correct height.

But is raising (and tilting them) also helpful if there is a large surface in front of them like they are resting on the back edge of a table or there is a large coffee table directly in front of them.

 

[ryanosaur]

To what was said earlier... while some people insist filling stands is to stop them from ringing, it is really about lowering the center of gravity.
Certainly, some kiln-dried sand will damp the ringing of the steel it goes into, but I haven't ever experienced that. On the other hand, put a 32# Speaker on top of a 36" stand... You want that center of gravity as low as you can get it! (In this case, you want to fill the hollow tube or tubes to about 2/3 full, maybe 3/4 if the Speaker is particularly heavy.

 

[Tangband]

Hi All,
I'm learning loads here, and saving an absolute fortune! It's still tricky to separate out the sensible system changes from the mythical ones ...

One subject that I'm not clear on: how important are rigid/damped speaker supports? I get that speakers are the problem child (transparent DAC and amp just do their job) and that their interaction with the room is key (hence EQ and treatment)

How important is it to hold those speakers still i.e stands. Floorsanders Floorstanders (!) are out for me, In this room. My speakers are wall mounted currently and this, plus a sub, is the next area for me to look at

Thanks for your help

Correct loudspeaker stands are really important if you want your loudspeakers to perform the best. A couple of reasons exist:

1. Loudspeakers tweeter at ear-level.

2. No resonanses or reflexes from a shelve or desk. This is important .

3. Correct damping of the loudspeaker , which moves resonanses where the sound gets better.
Not all loudspeaker stand manufacturer care about this, but brands like custom design an Linn products sure do.

4. The ability to move the loudspeaker at the right position in the room. i.e correct distance to the frontwall.

It may seem unnecessary to spend money on this, but a good loudspeaker stand can better the sound.

Heres some reviews:

Home review

Best speaker stands, Awards 2013. Allow your speakers to sound vibrant, transparent and rhythmical

www.whathifi.com

Kef LS50 Wireless Speaker Stands

Kef Speaker Stands LS50 Wireless Speaker Stands Kef LS50 Speaker Stand Supports Kef LS50 Wireless Speaker Stands Acoustic Steel Isolation Top Plates Speaker Stand Support Kef LS50 Acoustic Steel isolation Specialist Top Plates Base Plates Designed by Kef for the Kef LS50 Speaker Stands in Kef Black

www.customdesign.co.uk

”
Was using a high-mass pair of stands from another UK manufacturer with my LS50 Wireless stands, but they mostly sucked the life out of CD-resolution music streamed from Tidal, with a heavy muddy bass & limited stereo imaging, so when Custom Design introduced this specific LS50W stand a few months back, I felt compelled to try a pair. Following straightforward assembly, it became clear that two bags of Custom Design's own filler per main column was the optimal amount & music immediately seemed more "alive", with much better dynamics, a tighter quicker bass & more focused stereo image than I'd previously achieved. Aesthetically these stands suit the LS50 Wireless nicely, a perfect match colour-wise & lovely satin finish - they really make them look & sound like a top-end pair of speakers! And a friendly helpful company to deal with too, would definitely recommend.”

——————————-

The above statement sounds like clever commercial, but I can asure everyone that my Genelec 8340 sounds better on my Custom design rs 303, compared to my other stands. ( Im not a dealer )

 

[Beave]

Reviews, err, umm, "reviews" from whathifi don't hold much credibility around these parts.

And thank goodness for that.