House Wiring & Outlets

[Milt]

I don't know if anyone will find this interesting or discussion worthy but here goes.
There's a thread on Hoffman about esoteric, i.e., expensive power outlets & the difference they make.

I chimed in rather neutrally saying, in short, that ime, Hubbell Pro outlets were more than sufficient for delivering current to any piece of gear.
They're much better constructed than the usual big box Leviton, more metal, beefier, more positive contacts for the clamping the romex & the male plug spades.

The very next post after mine basically chased me out of the thread, telling me that cryo'd outlets made an immediate, obvious improvement and that I was full of shit. Queue the next several posts echoing the same.

I'm far past arguing about this stuff and on the rare occasion I do offer an opinion, I do only that without disparaging anyone or anything.
I think esoteric outlets are as big a scam as esoteric cables but that's just me.

I come from a background of being a Computer Data Center Manager in the past. I would speak extensively with the electronic techs that installed and serviced
the electronics and electrical systems that powered the data center. I picked their brains about all kinds of topics and actually had a couple of them inspect the wiring in a 1920's era house I was buying as my first house. I learned a ton from them.

So my question is this, am I crazy?
The folks posting on that thread absolutely swear on the immediate, audible, positive impact of esoteric outlets and firehose AC power cables.
HAve any of you guys used these things?

 

[JJB70]

In short, no you're not crazy. I haven't used any of those expensive power accessories as I think it's all snake oil.

 

[amirm]

So my question is this, am I crazy?

Of course not. I do plan to do a bunch of measurements in this area and have bought a fancy outlet to do that with.

A while ago I tested a few power cords and there are difference in them with respect to current handling but nothing outside of that. One of the best cords I found was the one that came from my Mark Levinson DAC which ironically is a chinese, rather cheap OEM cord.

The issue is the same for all audio tweaks. People perform improper listening tests, easily imagine differences not there, spread the word, and then everyone believes. They should perform a simple test: convert one outlet to the best they think there is, and another the cheapest from big box store. Then have a loved one randomly plug their equipment into one or the other a dozen times and see if they get it right.

Oh, don't suggest that on hoffman forum. I did shortly after registering and I have come within an ounce of being banned. Apparently it is against the rules there to talk about blind testing of any sort.

 

[Vincent Kars]

This one? http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-outlet-make-that-big-of-a-difference.786580/
Lots of fun there

 

[JJB70]

This one? http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-outlet-make-that-big-of-a-difference.786580/
Lots of fun there

Now that is entertaining, entertaining for all the wrong reasons but nevertheless entertaining!

 

[Blumlein 88]

You are not crazy. It is the same BS as connecting audio cables.

Any such clear audible positive improvement in sound has to result in an easily measurable improvement in the output signal of gear in use. Such a change doesn't happen. Sometimes like with many grounding devices it is measurably a bit worse.

I can't post in the Hoffman forum to say so however. I was banned long ago for saying such things without attacking anyone. Simply presenting facts and rationality. Anyone who posts such things there causes them to delete whole threads. If you are involved in such a couple or three times you get banned. So they aren't going to allow good discussion and discourse there.

 

[derp1n]

The guy recommending burning in the power socket for 5-6 weeks with your fridge. Wow. How could you unplug your fridge once the socket is burned in? The food would taste like shit refrigerated from a regular old socket.

 

[restorer-john]

This one? http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-outlet-make-that-big-of-a-difference.786580/
Lots of fun there

That thread is just a big p#ss-take isn't it? They can't be serious.

My favourite:
"Anyone with a decent ear and reasonably resolving system will hear improvements with better receptacles and, as I stated, those improvements are huge"

 

[JJB70]

I sometimes feel like recommending people sign up for a high school physics refresher course as they could save themselves $$$$$$$$$$$$$'s by understanding sufficient basic science and math to recognise how much utter and total nonsense is floated by some audiophile companies and websites.

 

[graz_lag]

I try here to make my very long experience on this topic, short ...

My CD player and integrated amplifier chain is composed of Harman Kardon units : the HKD990 CD palyer and HK990 integrated amplifier.
The two units can be interconnected by means of what HK calls a proprietary protocol (HRS-Link), which is in fact nothing more than a RJ45 cord ...
However, despite the marketing claims from HK, I liked to idea to get rid of the RCA or XLR cables, using - to connect the two units together, the supplied RJ45 cord instead.
Logically, it's a digital connection, which assigns the clock of the amplifier to be the master whilst the CD player becomes the slave.
I plugged both Harman Kardon units into the same outlet, which supplied the power to all my video & sound installation.
Our home in Le Mans has motorized stores.
Suddenly, each time a motorized store was activated by the domotic central processor, the sound in the speakers coming from the HK assembly blinked (disappeared) for an instant. (A hole in the sound ...)
After some time of testing and checking this and that in the installation, I decided to run a dedicated power line from the main electrical cabinet down to a dedicated outlet that fed only the HK assembly.
The "blinking or hole" issue in the sound, which was generated by the motorized stores, disappeared.
After that, I run a second dedicated power line from the main electrical cabinet for the rest of my video & sound installation.
As a further development, I installed a line transformer to feed both the dedicated line, which are now completely isolated from the rest of the electrical installation.

It's not snake oil, just a personal real experience, from which I have understood that pursuing a clean electrical installation for our video & sound installation is a step-by-step process. You do a modification, you check the results before moving into the next step.
I definitively avoid the vendors of snake-oil magical power cords and interconnects and - when possible, I rather prefer assembling them from selected components.
You buy, you build, you test, in some cases you drop everything in the garbage, and you start over.
But at least you understand the content of what you're doing and where you're headed to.

 

[RayDunzl]

My single 15A/1800W receptacle is severely overloaded.

Except it's not.

Using max draw values:

Two monoblocks 1700W x 2
Preamp 75W
Little stuff, maybe 100W
Plasma TV 480W
4 150W subs - 600W
2 JBL LSR 308 - 112W x 2

Total: 4,879W

 

[Timbo2]

I wired my basement workshop and the garage with industrial outlets. My reasoning was simply because of the number of insertions and removals there. Funny enough I had an extra one left over and had the outlet go bad at the top of steps and replaced it with an industrial one as well. That's the one the vacuum cleaner gets plugged into frequently. It's worked well for the past 10 plus years.

US Folk- NEMA 5-20
The interesting thing to me is that you can't "stab" straight connections into the back of the industrial outlet you have to hook them on the screw. Many is the old school electrician who refused to use the straight connections on the residential outlets. Me, I followed the directions. Proper stripped length and making sure the screw is tight and I've never had an issue with the straight connections. It's a certified device with the straight connections if you wire it properly.

https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/37/37d139ab-75f2-4432-ab78-8c648a974021.pdf

 

[graz_lag]

My single 15A/1800W receptacle is severely overloaded.

Except it's not.

Using max draw values:

Two monoblocks 1700W x 2
Preamp 75W
Little stuff, maybe 100W
Plasma TV 480W
4 150W subs - 600W
2 JBL LSR 308 - 112W x 2

Total: 4,879W

Hmm ... A $20 meter will tell you what you really draw ...
https://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU

 

[c1ferrari]

Of course not. I do plan to do a bunch of measurements in this area and have bought a fancy outlet to do that with.
A while ago I tested a few power cords and there are difference in them with respect to current handling but nothing outside of that.

Amir, what parameters should be assessed according to the literature?

 

[DonH56]

I try here to make my very long experience on this topic, short ...

My CD player and integrated amplifier chain is composed of Harman Kardon units : the HKD990 CD palyer and HK990 integrated amplifier.
The two units can be interconnected by means of what HK calls a proprietary protocol (HRS-Link), which is in fact nothing more than a RJ45 cord ...
However, despite the marketing claims from HK, I liked to idea to get rid of the RCA or XLR cables, using - to connect the two units together, the supplied RJ45 cord instead.
Logically, it's a digital connection, which assigns the clock of the amplifier to be the master whilst the CD player becomes the slave.
I plugged both Harman Kardon units into the same outlet, which supplied the power to all my video & sound installation.
Our home in Le Mans has motorized stores.
Suddenly, each time a motorized store was activated by the domotic central processor, the sound in the speakers coming from the HK assembly blinked (disappeared) for an instant. (A hole in the sound ...)
After some time of testing and checking this and that in the installation, I decided to run a dedicated power line from the main electrical cabinet down to a dedicated outlet that fed only the HK assembly.
The "blinking or hole" issue in the sound, which was generated by the motorized stores, disappeared.
After that, I run a second dedicated power line from the main electrical cabinet for the rest of my video & sound installation.
As a further development, I installed a line transformer to feed both the dedicated line, which are now completely isolated from the rest of the electrical installation.

It's not snake oil, just a personal real experience, from which I have understood that pursuing a clean electrical installation for our video & sound installation is a step-by-step process. You do a modification, you check the results before moving into the next step.
I definitively avoid the vendors of snake-oil magical power cords and interconnects and - when possible, I rather prefer assembling them from selected components.
You buy, you build, you test, in some cases you drop everything in the garbage, and you start over.
But at least you understand the content of what you're doing and where you're headed to.

Poor power delivery in the form of brownouts or dropouts can be resolved by better power delivery. And I am pretty sure a meter would show your dropouts thus they are measurable. You did well to identify and correct the situation (one I have dealt with as well -- poor power delivery in a rural area) but that is a completely different scenario than replacing a wall outlet and claiming all sorts of audible (if immeasurable) benefits as a result.

And implying (not that you did, referring to previous posts) that those who can't hear the "huge" difference because their ears are not good enough or system not resolving enough is arrogant and insulting IMO. Typical, but still...

 

[amirm]

Amir, what parameters should be assessed according to the literature?

I have seen next to no research on the topic. My goal is to modify the AC signal in controlled ways and see the effect on the output of audio devices. I have a lab AC generator that allows me to do that so that is the project plan.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

After some time of testing and checking this and that in the installation, I decided to run a dedicated power line from the main electrical cabinet down to a dedicated outlet that fed only the HK assembly.
The "blinking or hole" issue in the sound, which was generated by the motorized stores, disappeared.

I would like to point out that brief interruptions in signal clearly indicate that there is a lack of power being supplied to one or more components sufficient for them to briefly fail operating. Obviously, eliminating such interruptions is desirable. However, one should not infer from this that the performance of these same components is measurably or audibly compromised between interruptions or when there are no interruptions.

 

[FrantzM]

I used to be of the advice that the quality of the AC Power made a difference.... I have lost most of the gold in my hearing.. I no longer seem to be able to perceive such differences, frequentation of this site can do that to you
For our (OCD-type people ) peace of mind.hospital hospital-Grade outlets and higher AWG (to the maximum allowable under the NEC code) is advisable. Hospital grade outlets provide a tighter grip and look prettier .. as for the covers, one can always cover the covers with carbon fiber available at Amazon for the Furutech look... but not the price

Furutech

These are also available at Amazon ... The price is for the COVER..

 

[graz_lag]

I would like to point out that brief interruptions in signal clearly indicate that there is a lack of power being supplied to one or more components sufficient for them to briefly fail operating. Obviously, eliminating such interruptions is desirable. However, one should not infer from this that the performance of these same components is measurably or audibly compromised between interruptions or when there are no interruptions.

It was a very frustrating and time-consuming experience for me, as it was also my first experience with that type of issue.
My first reaction was to verify whether the issue existed or not also with the RCA and/or XLR interconnects.
And no, it was not there, no brownouts or dropouts of sound, these were there only when the two devices where digitally connected.

I do not think - but I am not an expert, that there was a lack of power being supplied, but rather some sort of interference from the main.
That was the reason for which I took the direction of cleaning up the main.

 

[RayDunzl]

Hmm ... A $20 meter will tell you what you really draw ...
https://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU

Yes, that's how I know that outlet/branch is not overloaded during normal use.

The kitchen lights (240W), and my desktop stuff (upt to 300W or so), are on the same branch/breaker.

Trouble has come when the vacuum cleaner (750W) is operated indiscriminately in the area.

I bought the breaker/wire/wall box/outlet to install a dedicated 20A circuit a year or so ago, but being retired there just isn't any time for things like that. Maybe I'll find some soon, since the season that passes as Winter is here (Winter = turn off the central air), and I'd need to go up into the unfinished attic area to string the wire, about 80 feet.