Horn Speakers - Is it me or.......

[JRS]

For a great treatment of all things "horn", the Geddes on Waveguides thread at diyAudio is a classic.
It's extremely long, and wanders about, but even the 1st page has good insights.
Another interesting development on diyAudio lately, in regard to horns, is the release of software for waveguide modeling.
I can dig that link up if any are interested.

I'd be very interested to play with that SW.

 

[dc655321]

I'd be very interested to play with that SW.

Search for ABEC or AKABAK(?).
How sharp are your software skills? IIRC, this software is very expert-friendly...

 

[JeanKazamer]

Compression drivers are different from dome tweeters for a reason. A compression driver is meant to be used on a horn that loads the cone acoustically, and depends on this to achieve a flat frequency response.

This is the info i was looking for. Thanks again

 

[kyle_neuron]

Search for ABEC or AKABAK(?).
How sharp are your software skills? IIRC, this software is very expert-friendly...

That's the simulation tool, which is very powerful, but the front end for the mesh generation is https://at-horns.eu/

 

[JeanKazamer]

Is that stuff for real ? i was looking at compression drivers to learn what they are about a bit more . Lots of manufacturers seem to list the power in the " testing tube "
but this is on a 40X20 horn ? how can that little driver still push 105db at 300hz with only 1W ??

Do most compression drivers have this kind of compromise ? this one seems to drop quite fast before 10khz
but goes very low for its size , most of the smaller ones drop real fast under 1KHZ but most go up to 30khz iirc

I am totally impressed by this graph .lol

 

[dasdoing]

What they call "cardioid", or "passive cardioid", because the radiation pattern control is done with passive ports.

Those ports are openings in the cabinet, usually on each side, inside the cabinet there is some sort of resistive damping material to achieve a port output that is 180 degrees out-of-phase with the sound from the front of the driver, and the frequency response of the output from those ports and their location on the cabinet are adjusted so they create the desired radiation pattern. It looks like a bass-reflex port, but acoustically it works different.

can you give an example for this?

My experience is also that radiation pattern matters even with absorption in place. You can also see this on measurements - even if the frequency response does not change much, the very early decay is better with controlled pattern.

I guess much of the improvement will be hidden on smoothed graphs (less cancelations). I have been saying this on other topics, smoothed graphs don't show the whole story

 

[Scholl]

What they call "cardioid", or "passive cardioid", because the radiation pattern control is done with passive ports.

can you give an example for this?

The D&D 8C is probably one of the better known speaker using that passive cardioid design. There are other speaker manufacturers using the same idea, like Amphion with the Krypton 3. You can see the openings on each side of the speakers, close to the front woofers.

 

[Tom Danley]

Thanks all for the superb info, learning and researching is so fun

Is there some kind of definition to seperate " horns " and " waveguides " ?
Some set values from which it transition perhaps? or are those interchangeable now

In the RF / microwave world where the term wave-guide came from, that referred to a "horn" what was large enough to be confining the radiation pattern to a specific and large degree.
In audio, horns can do the same thing and can also increase the actual efficiency of the driver as well (while both directivity AND efficiency raise the SPL per Watt on axis) .
Since the rate of expansion is part of what governs the acoustic "high pass" effect of the increased efficiency aspect, early horns were usually somewhere near or at an exponential expansion rate which has a constant rate of expansion.

Later as Don Keele wrote "what's so sacred about exponential horns" where he proposed a largely straight wall horns which while less efficient down low, how a more constant radiation angle (needed for an audience plane vs the hf at only a few seats).
Hope that helps

Tom Danley

 

[hifinutt]

i use BIG impulse taus horns and will be comapring some amphion argon 1 this week . they are utterly magnificent with exterior crossovers

P1060435 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/, on Flickr

 

[dasdoing]

@Erin actualy measssured a DIY constant directivity horn speaker: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/diysg_htm12v1/
look at the controled directivity, and crazy low distorsion even at 102dB.
this $300 speaker might be beter after EQ then a $12000 D&D 8c

 

[JRS]

Search for ABEC or AKABAK(?).
How sharp are your software skills? IIRC, this software is very expert-friendly...

Thanks for the posting. My software skills are in serious disuse atrophy, but who knows, may rise to the occasion with some perseverance.

 

[Bjorn]

@Erin actualy measssured a DIY constant directivity horn speaker: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/diysg_htm12v1/
look at the controled directivity, and crazy low distorsion even at 102dB.
this $300 speaker might be beter after EQ then a $12000 D&D 8c

It's has a classic collapsing polar, loosing the directivity control quite high in frequency. A collapsing polar smack in a very sensitive area is not good. Strictly speaking I wouldn't call this a constant direcitivity speaker.

 

[dasdoing]

I guess much of the improvement will be hidden on smoothed graphs (less cancelations). I have been saying this on other topics, smoothed graphs don't show the whole story

@RayDunzl actualy showed this impressivly. not with a horn speaker, but same result https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...h-efficiency-speakers.9467/page-2#post-250820

then with smoothing: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...h-efficiency-speakers.9467/page-2#post-250861

 

[Kvalsvoll]

can you give an example for this?

Already done, see above, picture of 2 different speakers with this type of solution.

And of course my own speakers, though it would be wrong for me to post pictures and details on my own speakers here, you can find them on my web page.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

It's has a classic collapsing polar, loosing the directivity control quite high in frequency. A collapsing polar smack in a very sensitive area is not good. Strictly speaking I wouldn't call this a constant direcitivity speaker.

Exactly. The directivity control needs to extend much further down in frequency.

 

[Da cynics]

Currently in progress

GGNTKT M3 yes M3 Formerly known as M2!

A little teaser: More to come ;)

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[dasdoing]

Currently in progress

GGNTKT M3 yes M3 Formerly known as M2!

A little teaser: More to come ;)

www.audiosciencereview.com

horns+DSP seams to be always superiour. I hope this type of tecnology tickles down to budged products

 

[Sal1950]

A horn from a non-PC company is a horn.
A horn form a company that want's to be perceived as PC is a wave guide.

 

[Newman]

So, waveguide + redneck marketing = horn

 

[Sal1950]

So, waveguide + redneck marketing = horn

Somtin like that,

A horn is a horn,

A horse is a horse of course of course
And no one can talk to a horse of course.
That is of course unless the horse
Is the famous Mister Ed!
Go right to the source and ask the horse.
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mister Ed!