home theater in a small room, bookshelf speakers recommendations

[Steve Dallas]

the genelec option has me hooked. since i find them a bit pricey, i looked for alternatives and found these little guys:

iLoud Micro Monitors measurements and quasi-anechoic spinorama

I've had these little monitors for a while. I'm a big fan. Their name might sound like a cheap Apple knockoff product, but for $300 a pair, they sound great so long as you intend to use them in the nearfield and don't intend to listen at ridiculous volumes. I'm a 70dB kind of guy, so that's...

www.audiosciencereview.com

they receive praise all over the net. i am just not sure if they have the same good imaging and soundstage like the genelec and if they wouldnt be too far away (aprox 6 feet), since they are meant for nearfield usually. however they cost half the price of the genelec. any thoughts on those for my situation?

They would be too far away to play at home theater / gaming levels without distortion and mechanical noise. They would also hit the built in limiter before you would be satisfied with the loudness. They would have too little dynamic range. They are not made for your application. Keep looking.

Another selling point on a KEF setup: they work very well with digital room correction and equalization due to their excellent directivity. This makes them very versatile in an application like yours.

 

[Goldhamster916]

They would be too far away to play at home theater / gaming levels without distortion and mechanical noise. They would also hit the built in limiter before you would be satisfied with the loudness. They would have too little dynamic range. They are not made for your application. Keep looking.

Another selling point on a KEF setup: they work very well with digital room correction and equalization due to their excellent directivity. This makes them very versatile in an application like yours.

since this is my first audio set up coming from tv speakers its hard for me to judge all these audio numbers in real wolrd terms.

i think performance wise the kef q150 are perfect. just wish i would find something a little less bulky.

currently looking into the polk ES10, do you think they would be ok, or just too much of a downgrade compared to the kef?

 

[Power Pop 23]

Hello,

i am currently building my first ever home theater (7.1.4) in a small 4x3m room. I am mainly concerned about immersion in games with some movie watching here and there. i listen at rather moderate/low levels, so i really dont need speakers with a lot of output. I will use them with a denon x3800h for Auro3D upmixing and dolby atmos. i will have a klipsch rp 1400sw subwoofer, so they dont need good bass extension below 80 or 100hz. what i do need is good detail retrieval and attributes which help creating a convincing wide soundstage and precise imaging.



would be nice if the speakers would be under 500 dolars a pair. it would also be nice to have a white version and dimensions rather on the smaller side. but that is not a must. i am located in europe (germany).


my current favourite is the monitor audio bronze 50, so you get an idea what i am looking for.

any insights and suggestions are much appreciated!

I recommend the Polk ES series in White - using as large a speaker as practical for each location. I am not familiar with the metric equivalent but the small Polk ES10 loudspeaker has a 1/4-20 mounting hole (in addition to a keyhole mount). The Polk ES15 has a keyhole mount.

I perceive more detail when I enable Dirac Live. I do not game. I do not know if deploying Dirac Live filters on the Denon AVR-X3800H would retrieve more detail while preserving a wide, convincing soundstage with precise imaging.

Perhaps others could comment.

 

[kemmler3D]

since this is my first audio set up coming from tv speakers its hard for me to judge all these audio numbers in real wolrd terms.

As a very rough rule of thumb I would give you this:

70dB is clearly audible but definitely not loud
80dB is starting to be what some people would call loud, it's at least loud enough to get your attention, but it's not "really" loud.
90dB is loud enough that almost everyone would agree it's "loud", many will tell you it's too loud.
100dB is extremely loud, unpleasantly loud for many people.

You can use this handy calculator to figure out the SPL at your listening position. http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html

In the noaudiophile review, they say the speaker runs out of bass at 80dB and starts to distort noticeably at 85. So if we take 85 as our upper limit, you can get something like 83dB at 10 feet away from the front 3 speakers, 86dB if 7 speakers are going flat-out, which means for home theater, the absolute loudest moment in a movie is going to be "kinda sorta loud". Like the bomb going off in oppenheimer would only reach a hair above normal music listening volumes.

The sub will be carrying the team on its own, making any room correction below 80hz or so that much harder.

I tend to agree with @Steve Dallas that these speakers are not up to the task of home theater in terms of output unless you really only listen quietly. These are outstanding desktop speakers for the money but can't go loud enough to make a dent from 10+ feet away.

 

[Goldhamster916]

i really appreciate the insight, helped me a imagine the real life consequnces.

currently i am looking into options between the iloud micro and kef q150 size. esepcially at the wharfdale 12.0, the dali spektor 1 and the qacopustics 3010i

 

[Descartes]

the genelec option has me hooked. since i find them a bit pricey, i looked for alternatives and found these little guys:

iLoud Micro Monitors measurements and quasi-anechoic spinorama

I've had these little monitors for a while. I'm a big fan. Their name might sound like a cheap Apple knockoff product, but for $300 a pair, they sound great so long as you intend to use them in the nearfield and don't intend to listen at ridiculous volumes. I'm a 70dB kind of guy, so that's...

www.audiosciencereview.com

they receive praise all over the net. i am just not sure if they have the same good imaging and soundstage like the genelec and if they wouldnt be too far away (aprox 6 feet), since they are meant for nearfield usually. however they cost half the price of the genelec. any thoughts on those for my situation?

Look at Kali!

 

[staticV3]

Look at Kali!

Kali's smallest speaker, the LP-6 v2, is even more bulky than the Q150, which OP already described as too bulky:

i think performance wise the kef q150 are perfect. just wish i would find something a little less bulky.

Here they are side by side: https://comparesizes.com/comparison/Q150-vs-LP6-v2/1700204564197

 

[Andysu]

As a very rough rule of thumb I would give you this:

70dB is clearly audible but definitely not loud
80dB is starting to be what some people would call loud, it's at least loud enough to get your attention, but it's not "really" loud.
90dB is loud enough that almost everyone would agree it's "loud", many will tell you it's too loud.
100dB is extremely loud, unpleasantly loud for many people.

You can use this handy calculator to figure out the SPL at your listening position. http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html

In the noaudiophile review, they say the speaker runs out of bass at 80dB and starts to distort noticeably at 85. So if we take 85 as our upper limit, you can get something like 83dB at 10 feet away from the front 3 speakers, 86dB if 7 speakers are going flat-out, which means for home theater, the absolute loudest moment in a movie is going to be "kinda sorta loud". Like the bomb going off in oppenheimer would only reach a hair above normal music listening volumes.

The sub will be carrying the team on its own, making any room correction below 80hz or so that much harder.

I tend to agree with @Steve Dallas that these speakers are not up to the task of home theater in terms of output unless you really only listen quietly. These are outstanding desktop speakers for the money but can't go loud enough to make a dent from 10+ feet away.

i do these tests all time
i know what to look for , listen for and feel for
lot of odeon uk cinemas even the newest , not new anymore but its rubbish and never again will i go to that well over 85dBA odeon

2nd visit to this odeon bournemouth bh2 garbage dolby labs JBL trash cinema , pity it uses JBL , odeon have this deafening fader level policy

3rd final time had enough of this rubbish dolby labs atmos its junk , life like sound , that's a joke of poor advertisement , pity no real THX cinemas exist in the uk anymore , just junk odeon digital cinemas

 

[staticV3]

currently i am looking into options between the iloud micro and kef q150 size. esepcially at the wharfdale 12.0, the dali spektor 1 and the qacopustics 3010i

The Dali is not very good: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ali-spektor-1-review-bookshelf-speaker.25063/

No measurements for the 3010i, but the bigger 3020i didn't do so well either: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...oustics-3020i-bookshelf-speaker-review.14568/

A bookshelf that measures well and is more compact than the Q150 is the Neumi Silk 4.

Review: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/neumi_silk4/
Size comparison: https://comparesizes.com/comparison/Q150-vs-Silk-4/1700205122047

If you really want that white cabinet, then the ES10 might be your best option. But again, the only measurements we have are of its bigger brother ES20, which did well: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...re-elite-es20-review-bookshelf-speaker.33834/

 

[Goldhamster916]

The Dali is not very good: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ali-spektor-1-review-bookshelf-speaker.25063/

No measurements for the 3010i, but the bigger 3020i didn't do so well either: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...oustics-3020i-bookshelf-speaker-review.14568/

A bookshelf that measures well and is more compact than the Q150 is the Neumi Silk 4.

Review: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/neumi_silk4/
Size comparison: https://comparesizes.com/comparison/Q150-vs-Silk-4/1700205122047

If you really want that white cabinet, then the ES10 might be your best option. But again, the only measurements we have are of its bigger brother ES20, which did well: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...re-elite-es20-review-bookshelf-speaker.33834/

Thanks a lot for your thoughts.
I tried the loudness calculator and ended up with 111db for the q acoustics 3010i. But there are actually physical limitations within the speaker which would result in reduced fidelity way before the theoretical max output level, or not?

 

[Steve Dallas]

Thanks a lot for your thoughts.
I tried the loudness calculator and ended up with 111db for the q acoustics 3010i. But there are actually physical limitations within the speaker which would result in reduced fidelity way before the theoretical max output level, or not?

What are your listening distances?

You need to find a speaker that can reach your desired SPL at those distances with minimal distortion. That is difficult to accomplish with small speakers--especially for home theater and gaming.

 

[Goldhamster916]

6 feet. I think I would be happy if it tops out at 90db to emphasize some effects in the mid and upper range while the average listening level is lower. For the low end I have a very competent subwoofer.

 

[JustJones]

Why all 11 speakers the same? Maybe larger front and smaller FXs?

 

[JustJones]

You mentioned the Polk ES maybe the 20's across the front and 15's on surround and and 10's on height pulling the other duties? Just as an example nothing more.

 

[kemmler3D]

Thanks a lot for your thoughts.
I tried the loudness calculator and ended up with 111db for the q acoustics 3010i. But there are actually physical limitations within the speaker which would result in reduced fidelity way before the theoretical max output level, or not?

To figure out the maximum SPL for a speaker for this calculator, your first stop is the speaker's power rating - don't use a higher number than that in the calculator. Second stop, if you can find them, would be distortion measurements and IDEALLY, compression tests, which tell you the "real" maximums.

If a speaker has (say) 5% distortion at 90dB SPL it doesn't really matter what the power handling rating is, the distortion is going to be very objectionable at 100dB.

A compression test measures whether the speaker's frequency response holds together at higher volumes. Often (especially with active speakers) the bass falls behind at high SPL.

Luckily 90dB at 6ft is not too hard to achieve, so most of what you're looking at except for the iLoud should handle it.

I also want to add to the comments here suggesting you consider different speakers for the surrounds and front speakers.

In general there's a lot more content coming from the LCR channels than height or side/rear channels. If you invest slightly more in the front channels and slightly less in the others, you will probably end up with a more satisfying sound. I imagine this will also make it easier to make the budget work overall. If you have $2500 to spend overall, I would personally put $1250 into the front and $1250 into the other channels.

While we're at it, I forgot that the JBL305s come in white, might be a reasonable option at this price level. The response is just okay, but directivity is good, and it measures a little bright IMO, so that should actually be good (maybe excessively so) for "detail". https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...mkii-and-control-1-pro-monitors-review.10811/ They are only about $300 per pair so that would enable a bit of an upgrade in the front channels. (interestingly I guess that was Amir's first speaker review, so there is a lot of explanation of how the measurements work, worth a look if only for that.)

 

[RDoc]

I'd suggest JBL 308P speakers. We replaced our 305's with 308's and were very happy we did. There are often very good sales on these.

 

[kemmler3D]

I'd suggest JBL 308P speakers. We replaced our 305's with 308's and were very happy we did. There are often very good sales on these.

Certainly the better choice sound-wise, but OP has expressed concern about size and the 308s are pretty big. I personally think either is a good choice for the surrounds, 308s maybe even for mains.

And to your point there are good discounts on these speakers (at least in the US) right now. I almost wish I needed some speakers, lol.

 

[Goldhamster916]

thanks for your time

the JBL seem to be good, but i think i really want to have a passive speaker to avoid double wiring since i am using an avr.

right now i am debating if something like the q acoustic 3010i would be enough or if i whould talk myself into bigger more expensive speakers like the kef q150. or like you said a mix (maybe the q3020i for mains and3010i for surround). i will probably order one of each and see what volume levels i can achieve and what i like better.

 

[kemmler3D]

thanks for your time

the JBL seem to be good, but i think i really want to have a passive speaker to avoid double wiring since i am using an avr.

right now i am debating if something like the q acoustic 3010i would be enough or if i whould talk myself into bigger more expensive speakers like the kef q150. or like you said a mix (maybe the q3020i for mains and3010i for surround). i will probably order one of each and see what volume levels i can achieve and what i like better.

Sounds like a good plan to me!

 

[staticV3]

thanks for your time

the JBL seem to be good, but i think i really want to have a passive speaker to avoid double wiring since i am using an avr.

right now i am debating if something like the q acoustic 3010i would be enough or if i whould talk myself into bigger more expensive speakers like the kef q150. or like you said a mix (maybe the q3020i for mains and3010i for surround). i will probably order one of each and see what volume levels i can achieve and what i like better.

Polk's ES line honestly looks like a better choice. They play more evenly off-axis.

You can compare them here:

Q Acoustics 3020i Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Q Acoustics 3020i bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. It costs US $315 from Amazon including free shipping. It is so hard for companies to differentiate themselves with budget speakers but Q...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Polk Signature Elite ES20 Review (Bookshelf Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Polk Signature Elite ES20 bookshelf speaker. I purchased it from Amazon for US $349 a pair including shipping. I really like the look and finish of this series from Polk. Despite budget pricing, it looks nice and purposeful as you can tell...

www.audiosciencereview.com