Hifiman Edition XS

[odyo]

Then you might be a victim of Hifiman's famous build quality. Return it...

It seems like the drivers have completely different resonance frequency. If i put them on my desk and play sub bass frequencies from tone generator each earcup sound completely different. They sound like they are distorting btw. This distorted sound diminish when i bring my hand close to the drivers. I'm trying to understand if they are really defective. Maybe this behaviour normal ? Coming from Ananda, i'm not getting good sub bass when i'm listening music.

 

[dreamscene]

It seems like the drivers have completely different resonance frequency. If i put them on my desk and play sub bass frequencies from tone generator each earcup sound completely different. They sound like they are distorting btw. This distorted sound diminish when i bring my hand close to the drivers. I'm trying to understand if they are really defective. Maybe this behaviour normal ? Coming from Ananda, i'm not getting good sub bass when i'm listening music.

First of all why would you buy the XS if you had the Ananda? Very little in it at normal listening volumes. Don't get into the Audiophile hole.

 

[Jimbob54]

It seems like the drivers have completely different resonance frequency. If i put them on my desk and play sub bass frequencies from tone generator each earcup sound completely different. They sound like they are distorting btw. This distorted sound diminish when i bring my hand close to the drivers. I'm trying to understand if they are really defective. Maybe this behaviour normal ? Coming from Ananda, i'm not getting good sub bass when i'm listening music.

You dont have much luck with Hifiman , do you? Was the XS your replacement for broken Ananda?

Hifiman Ananda Review (headphone)

I suspect either the main headband or possibly one of the yoke stems is a little deformed/bent. I highly suspect plastic part on headband (adjustment mechanism) but i can't be sure for 100%. I'm starting to suspect trolling so I think this will be my last comment on this. No trolling in any...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[odyo]

First of all why would you buy the XS if you had the Ananda? Very little in it at normal listening volumes. Don't get into the Audiophile hole.

You dont have much luck with Hifiman , do you? Was the XS your replacement for broken Ananda?

Hifiman Ananda Review (headphone)

I suspect either the main headband or possibly one of the yoke stems is a little deformed/bent. I highly suspect plastic part on headband (adjustment mechanism) but i can't be sure for 100%. I'm starting to suspect trolling so I think this will be my last comment on this. No trolling in any...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yes it's a replacement for my dead Ananda. You mean the bass ? I eq my headphones.

 

[Makafuni]

Yes i tried every combination, bal cables, inverted connection to the cups, zen dac, zen can. 5-6db difference is consistent. It lessens when i go up and equalize at around 80hz.

I had a similar problem (left channel playing lower) with the zen stack EDXS combo. But for me it's the amp. When I switch R&L cable on the headphone the problem inverts.

 

[Makafuni]

It seems like the drivers have completely different resonance frequency. If i put them on my desk and play sub bass frequencies from tone generator each earcup sound completely different. They sound like they are distorting btw. This distorted sound diminish when i bring my hand close to the drivers. I'm trying to understand if they are really defective. Maybe this behaviour normal ? Coming from Ananda, i'm not getting good sub bass when i'm listening music.

Sounds like a defect driver. The first pair I had I returned. And though mine wasn't as obviously faulty as you describe, it was similar with lack of subbass in the left driver and around 2 db in the rest of FR.
Got a new pair and still had some slight imbalance across the FR (around 0.5db) but turned out this is the zen can (at 12) as i posted earlier.

I would return them. They definetly dont lack bass when working properly and they run clean on my setup too. They shouldn't distort with the can.

 

[odyo]

Sounds like a defect driver. The first pair I had I returned. And though mine wasn't as obviously faulty as you describe, it was similar with lack of subbass in the left driver and around 2 db in the rest of FR.
Got a new pair and still had some slight imbalance across the FR (around 0.5db) but turned out this is the zen can (at 12) as i posted earlier.

I would return them. They definetly dont lack bass when working properly and they run clean on my setup too. They shouldn't distort with the can.

I checked every combination my amp seems fine. Looks like it's the headphones. I really like the headphones though, significantly more than Ananda.

Can you do this test for me ? Put your headphones on your desk and https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ play 20hz here, increase the volume until you hear the vibrations (it will sound like distorting) and see if each cup sound same or different ? It's happening due to resonance frequency i think, if you wear them distorted sound will disappear.

 

[mr.at]

@Makafuni
I hope the Hifiman QC team didn't mess up with the polarity of the drivers here in his pair.
Why does it seem to me that one of the drivers may actually be wired in reverse?

@odyo
Try this phase test: the first one (in phase) should be a normal bass drop, DEAD CENTER. It should be the exact same in both ears, no difference should be there.

The second bass drop (out of phase) should be outside (it's with reversed polarity), like a soundstage chorus, hard panned left and right, and nothing in the center.

If it's anything but these, there's a wiring problem or a driver problem or both.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

@Makafuni
I hope the Hifiman QC team didn't mess up with the polarity of the drivers here in his pair.
Why does it seem to me that one of the drivers may actually be wired in reverse?

@odyo
Try this phase test: the first one (in phase) should be a normal bass drop, DEAD CENTER. It should be the exact same in both ears, no difference should be there.

The second bass drop (out of phase) should be outside (it's with reversed polarity), like a soundstage chorus, hard panned left and right, and nothing in the center.

If it's anything but these, there's a wiring problem or a driver problem or both.

I agree too.
Hence my suggestion to check the plug at the amp end, but it was OK.
If our guess is correct, it could either be the cable or the headphones.
So checking it with another cable could in theory rule the cable in or out.

 

[radimsky]

Hey Guys and Gals,

My first post here, I've read most of this thread and it seems my head won't be bitten off if I ask couple of rookie questions.

Edition XS is my first pair of "serious" cans, I'm driving them daily since I've bought them and I'm really impressed, the sound signature really clicked with me and that juicy bass hits hard in some of my favourite R'n'B/Rap tracks. Only thing that annoys me is the constant creaking of earpads while wearing my glasses. Nevertheless, I'm really happy.

Now the questions.

1. I'm driving them on my Zen Dac V2, from my point of view it looks like they have enough power, but I would still like to know if I would notice any difference swapping cables for balanced ones. I was able to found one(yes, only one) made from CANARE STARQUAD L-4e5c in in Nylon Soft braiding with 4,4mm PAILLICS jack. This would cost me around 60$. Do you think this will be justified purchase?
2. Should I invest in any kind of Zen CAN in the future for my headphones to "unfold" even more? I still didn't do further research on how such set works exactly but I'm interested if such upgrade would drastically change the sound quality and overall signature of my cans(not only Edition XS).
3. As I mentioned, pads do creak a bit, so is there any other 3rd party pads manufacturer(other than Dekoni, ideally manufacturer or at least company from EU) that you could recommend? Maybe I would consider replacing them in near future.

I think that's all for now, I'm very happy with my choice and I can't wait for my friends to test them out also Really curious about your answers!

 

[odyo]

@Makafuni
I hope the Hifiman QC team didn't mess up with the polarity of the drivers here in his pair.
Why does it seem to me that one of the drivers may actually be wired in reverse?

@odyo
Try this phase test: the first one (in phase) should be a normal bass drop, DEAD CENTER. It should be the exact same in both ears, no difference should be there.

The second bass drop (out of phase) should be outside (it's with reversed polarity), like a soundstage chorus, hard panned left and right, and nothing in the center.

If it's anything but these, there's a wiring problem or a driver problem or both.

I checked that out. No problem. First drop is dead center, second one is hard left and right.

Hey Guys and Gals,

My first post here, I've read most of this thread and it seems my head won't be bitten off if I ask couple of rookie questions.

Edition XS is my first pair of "serious" cans, I'm driving them daily since I've bought them and I'm really impressed, the sound signature really clicked with me and that juicy bass hits hard in some of my favourite R'n'B/Rap tracks. Only thing that annoys me is the constant creaking of earpads while wearing my glasses. Nevertheless, I'm really happy.

Now the questions.

1. I'm driving them on my Zen Dac V2, from my point of view it looks like they have enough power, but I would still like to know if I would notice any difference swapping cables for balanced ones. I was able to found one(yes, only one) made from CANARE STARQUAD L-4e5c in in Nylon Soft braiding with 4,4mm PAILLICS jack. This would cost me around 60$. Do you think this will be justified purchase?
2. Should I invest in any kind of Zen CAN in the future for my headphones to "unfold" even more? I still didn't do further research on how such set works exactly but I'm interested if such upgrade would drastically change the sound quality and overall signature of my cans(not only Edition XS).
3. As I mentioned, pads do creak a bit, so is there any other 3rd party pads manufacturer(other than Dekoni, ideally manufacturer or at least company from EU) that you could recommend? Maybe I would consider replacing them in near future.

I think that's all for now, I'm very happy with my choice and I can't wait for my friends to test them out also Really curious about your answers!

1. I don't think there is any performance to be had with 4.4 bal cable with zen dac and XS. $60 is better saved for an amp. Also the stock cable is very nice i think.
2. I have the Zen Can. Honestly i don't notice much improvement. It's low impedance performance is relatively poor and it's not as cheap anymore so i'd recommend something like Asgard 3 for cheap and powerful RCA in SE out.
3. It's not the pads i think. Swivel hinge is creaking. It should disappear with time. Both my Ananda and the XS did that at first.

 

[Makafuni]

I checked that out. No problem. First drop is dead center, second one is hard left and right.

1. I don't think there is any performance to be had with 4.4 bal cable with zen dac and XS. $60 is better saved for an amp. Also the stock cable is very nice i think.
2. I have the Zen Can. Honestly i don't notice much improvement. It's low impedance performance is relatively poor and it's not as cheap anymore so i'd recommend something like Asgard 3 for cheap and powerful RCA in SE out.
3. It's not the pads i think. Swivel hinge is creaking. It should disappear with time. Both my Ananda and the XS did that at first.

I have both.
1.The zen can is no doubt an upgrade from the Zen dac with EDXS. Just about everything improves soundwise
2. The balanced out on both units is audibly better than SE, so the cable is an obvious upgrade and worth the 60 IMO. (get a pure cobber one though)
3. That said, I would agree that an Asgaard would be a better choice with this HP. (I'm planning on doing an amp upgrade as my next investment)

 

[radimsky]

Thanks for the responses! My quick summary below.

I checked that out. No problem. First drop is dead center, second one is hard left and right.

1. I don't think there is any performance to be had with 4.4 bal cable with zen dac and XS. $60 is better saved for an amp. Also the stock cable is very nice i think.
2. I have the Zen Can. Honestly i don't notice much improvement. It's low impedance performance is relatively poor and it's not as cheap anymore so i'd recommend something like Asgard 3 for cheap and powerful RCA in SE out.
3. It's not the pads i think. Swivel hinge is creaking. It should disappear with time. Both my Ananda and the XS did that at first.

1. Yeah, I don't have any problem with the cable itself. But if I don't get any improvement then I will wait for DAC/AMP upgrade first.
2. Unfortunately Schiit is out of the question in EU, the prices are abysmal, Asgard 3 in EU costs around 100$ more. Maybe Topping or other stacks(SMSL? I though it's available, but it can be bought only through AliExpress) would be a better option, at least they are available at retailers in my area and are more reasonably priced. I'll be using it with my PC only, BTW.
3. It's the pads, I've used the wrong term, it's an obvious squeaking sound, without glasses no unwelcomed noises whatsoever.

I have both.
1.The zen can is no doubt an upgrade from the Zen dac with EDXS. Just about everything improves soundwise
2. The balanced out on both units is audibly better than SE, so the cable is an obvious upgrade and worth the 60 IMO. (get a pure cobber one though)
3. That said, I would agree that an Asgaard would be a better choice with this HP. (I'm planning on doing an amp upgrade as my next investment)

1. And here is the so called audiophile rabbit hole I bought this DAC/AMP based on reviews and youtube videos, welp, then I guess I will be selling it or leave it to use it with my PS4/5.
2. Okay, a different view. I will still wait and look for alternate stack option.
3. As above, no option for me, I also remembered that they are mostly out of stock and have problems with re-stocking(maybe due to high demand). But the price is what kills it for me, so I need to search elsewhere.

 

[cheapmessiah]

Thanks for the responses! My quick summary below.

1. Yeah, I don't have any problem with the cable itself. But if I don't get any improvement then I will wait for DAC/AMP upgrade first.
2. Unfortunately Schiit is out of the question in EU, the prices are abysmal, Asgard 3 in EU costs around 100$ more. Maybe Topping or other stacks(SMSL? I though it's available, but it can be bought only through AliExpress) would be a better option, at least they are available at retailers in my area and are more reasonably priced. I'll be using it with my PC only, BTW.
3. It's the pads, I've used the wrong term, it's an obvious squeaking sound, without glasses no unwelcomed noises whatsoever.

1. And here is the so called audiophile rabbit hole I bought this DAC/AMP based on reviews and youtube videos, welp, then I guess I will be selling it or leave it to use it with my PS4/5.
2. Okay, a different view. I will still wait and look for alternate stack option.
3. As above, no option for me, I also remembered that they are mostly out of stock and have problems with re-stocking(maybe due to high demand). But the price is what kills it for me, so I need to search elsewhere.

Topping L50 is available through amazon on EU for 20€ more than the best offer china can get you, to some countries in the EU, not all of them. hifigo has the absolute best price in that regard, however, if you buy from EU youll have at least 2 years of warranty and will not have to send it to china for any warranty claims, to me thats worth the 20 extra euros.

Your other option in this range of prices are the topping L30, and the monolith 887 that can be bought for 240€ every now and then, but in my opinion the L50 is a better all rounder, and has the more desktop oriented chasis size, plus, you wont need balanced cables in the future to connect your headphones (the amp does work with balanced input tho).

 

[radimsky]

Topping L50 is available through amazon on EU for 20€ more than the best offer china can get you, to some countries in the EU, not all of them. hifigo has the absolute best price in that regard, however, if you buy from EU youll have at least 2 years of warranty and will not have to send it to china for any warranty claims, to me thats worth the 20 extra euros.

Your other option in this range of prices are the topping L30, and the monolith 887 that can be bought for 240€ every now and then, but in my opinion the L50 is a better all rounder, and has the more desktop oriented chasis size, plus, you wont need balanced cables in the future to connect your headphones (the amp does work with balanced input tho).

Cool! I was able to find L50 for 230 USD from local distributor, so warranty from seller it is. Monolith 887 is around 400 USD for me, that's a bit much, but I read some reviews and people are praising it. Topping L30 is the most accessible when it comes to price, but then I'm stuck without the possibility to upgrade to XLR, is there any other significant difference between L30 and L50? This is still difference of 100 USD. Also, they can be paid in instalments(good for Monolith option).

Beginners question, so in this case, as these are AMPs only, should I stay with my Zen Dac as... Well, DAC?

 

[odyo]

Thanks for the responses! My quick summary below.

1. Yeah, I don't have any problem with the cable itself. But if I don't get any improvement then I will wait for DAC/AMP upgrade first.
2. Unfortunately Schiit is out of the question in EU, the prices are abysmal, Asgard 3 in EU costs around 100$ more. Maybe Topping or other stacks(SMSL? I though it's available, but it can be bought only through AliExpress) would be a better option, at least they are available at retailers in my area and are more reasonably priced. I'll be using it with my PC only, BTW.
3. It's the pads, I've used the wrong term, it's an obvious squeaking sound, without glasses no unwelcomed noises whatsoever.

1. And here is the so called audiophile rabbit hole I bought this DAC/AMP based on reviews and youtube videos, welp, then I guess I will be selling it or leave it to use it with my PS4/5.
2. Okay, a different view. I will still wait and look for alternate stack option.
3. As above, no option for me, I also remembered that they are mostly out of stock and have problems with re-stocking(maybe due to high demand). But the price is what kills it for me, so I need to search elsewhere.

I'm personally eyeing the SMSL SH9 but to be fair, it's overpriced in my opinion. If you don't care about the display and the relay volume control of SH9, i think Topping A30 pro is a beast. It's expensive but a good single ended amp. No need to waste money for BAL headphone cables.
For DAC, i would recommend D10 BAL, cheap and flawless solution however if you want more audiophiley solution you can get the matching dacs of the amps but they are unreasonable purchases if you ask me. Getting Arya and running them with Zen Dac would yield better results than expensive fancy stacks and XS but it's still nice to have a good capable stack and guarantee flawless drive.

 

[Tobi]

Cool! I was able to find L50 for 230 USD from local distributor, so warranty from seller it is. Monolith 887 is around 400 USD for me, that's a bit much, but I read some reviews and people are praising it. Topping L30 is the most accessible when it comes to price, but then I'm stuck without the possibility to upgrade to XLR, is there any other significant difference between L30 and L50? This is still difference of 100 USD. Also, they can be paid in instalments(good for Monolith option).

Beginners question, so in this case, as these are AMPs only, should I stay with my Zen Dac as... Well, DAC?

The only real difference between the L30 and L50 is the option to run balanced, which should solve potential ground loops and provides you a lot more power. Regarding sound, there won't be any audible difference.

For the Edition XS you certainly don't need the extra power of the L50, I rarely go past the 2 o'clock mark on my L30 on medium gain, so there's still plenty of headroom for EQ.
Both amps are quite good options for low Impedance and low sensitivity planars, they provide a lot of clean power and don't struggle to provide current. The Zen Can does struggle a lot more with low impedances, sadly.

I personally would keep the Zen DAC and get an Amp. Sure, its not the best measuring DAC, but it's still quite good and I doubt you will hear a real difference in a blind test. Certainly not enough to justify the additional cost.

 

[radimsky]

The only real difference between the L30 and L50 is the option to run balanced, which should solve potential ground loops and provides you a lot more power. Regarding sound, there won't be any audible difference.

For the Edition XS you certainly don't need the extra power of the L50, I rarely go past the 2 o'clock mark on my L30 on medium gain, so there's still plenty of headroom for EQ.
Both amps are quite good options for low Impedance and low sensitivity planars, they provide a lot of clean power and don't struggle to provide current. The Zen Can does struggle a lot more with low impedances, sadly.

I personally would keep the Zen DAC and get an Amp. Sure, its not the best measuring DAC, but it's still quite good and I doubt you will hear a real difference in a blind test. Certainly not enough to justify the additional cost.

Great! It's a relief that my Zen Dac is not meant only for a landfill. I'll watch out for any special discount for these toppings. Whichever gets sliced in price first, will probably end on my desk. Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Blorg]

@radimsky two other options for balanced cables are OpenHeart (left) or FAAEAL (right) on AliExpress. I use the OpenHeart on the Ananda, the FAAEAL on the Edition XS. Mine are 2.5mm but they are also available in 4.4mm. Price is $10-15 from AliExpress, even cheaper locally in Asia. Very decent cables IMO, they wrap well, handle well, feel good, don't tangle, and the electrons seem to get where they are going.

 

[radimsky]

@radimsky two other options for balanced cables are OpenHeart (left) or FAAEAL (right) on AliExpress. I use the OpenHeart on the Ananda, the FAAEAL on the Edition XS. Mine are 2.5mm but they are also available in 4.4mm. Price is $10-15 from AliExpress, even cheaper locally in Asia. Very decent cables IMO, they wrap well, handle well, feel good, don't tangle, and the electrons seem to get where they are going.

Thanks! But are they really balanced? I'm curious cause the price difference is staggering to say the least. Even other vendors on Ali are selling these for higher prices.