Hifi Forum TDA-1541A DAC Review

[Azathoth]

...but at some point, the bodyguards might get too expensive

But seriously, one might be tempted to do this as DIY - like a Purifi amp build in a good old "Panzer Hi-Fi" case.

Hmm I'll include some NFT bullshit into it, get millions then disappear I suppose.

 

[Wuzel]

It's an highly 16 bit optimized DAC Chip for the Redbook CD Standard ....
Used in the famous CD-7.

But nothing that can compete with modern Chips. Better sounding...ohhh gosh.... the same shit as 'vinyl has better sounding', 'Cassette kill them all'....

The world seems broken

 

[martijn86]

Philips TDA1541 - A Monolithic Dual 16-Bit D/A Converter - DutchAudioClassics.nl

On March 8, 1979 Philips publicly demonstrated a prototype of an optical digital audio disc at a press conference called Philips Introduce Compact Disc in Eindhoven, Netherlands.

dutchaudioclassics.nl

maybe some info here

The original design launched in 1985. That means that the chip was developed by Philips in the early 80's. In the context of that decade, it was quite a good chip. But why feel nostalgic of anything from the black box cassette tape is beyond me? For a celebratory product from a Hifi forum, I expected something more. I imagine an ASR special edition integrated amp would collaborate with Topping, Hypex and a SHARC DSP processor that takes speaker measurements from Amirm and produces several different targets of response.

 

[capslock]

There are some TDA 1547 (better known as DAC 7) kits out there, wonder how they perform by today's standards.

This is the "big" version with a TDA1307 for a modulator. Funny, I seem to remember the TDA1307 cannot work standalone, i.e. need a µC to set it up.

The TDA1547 is pure 1-bit, so should have minimal distortion but poor noise performance. When used in the small configuration with the SAA7350, it'll be even noiser because the SAA7350 has poorer stop band attenuation.

 

[aj625]

Wow, great dac with 1541 chip.

What is so great evident in the review ?

 

[JEntwistle]

This got me thinking.. If I just enclose a cheap usb DAC in a large and heavy metal case, and obscure it by placing decoy boards in it and sell it for 1000 smackers you'd think I can get very rich?

There was someone who did this about 10 years, but in a much worse way. They had put someone else's CD player inside their own case - literally a case within a case! I can't remember which brand it was, but it was something expensive, and they were caught out and shamed. I wish I could find the picture.

 

[Veri]

What is so great evident in the review ?

As mentioned, it is '80s Philips R&D. Really not bad at all.

 

[KSTR]

Dithered 16bit data (as should be present on any competently mastered CD) has it's dither noise at ~90dBFS. No need for a 16bit DAC to have signficantly lower noise, nothing would be gained here.

This implementation is NOT limited by high'ish noise, there isn't. Distortion is also mostly below that noise brickwall as far as I would guess from the avaible data.

 

[AudioTodd]

For $388 one would expect some better performance for an external DAC, poor showing.

Happy mug panther is maybe too generous, but he is cool as.


JSmith

Gotta figure in the cost of the REAL chip too...

 

[xema]

HIFIDIY论坛-十周年纪念的TDA1541DAC，迟来的图片…… - Powered by Discuz!

HIFIDIY论坛

bbs.hifidiy.net

here is the original board
the red one is a copy.

 

[JEntwistle]

There was someone who did this about 10 years, but in a much worse way. They had put someone else's CD player inside their own case - literally a case within a case! I can't remember which brand it was, but it was something expensive, and they were caught out and shamed. I wish I could find the picture.

Ah, found it!

It's a Blu-ray, actually. This is a Lexicon BD-30 with an Oppo BDP-83 inside. You can see from this picture of the bottom that they just re-cased it and cut ventilation holes.

The source of this is Audioholics from January, 2010:

Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray Player (Oppo BDP-83 Clone) Review

We discovered the Lexicon BD-30 is an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player with a $3k premium. We prove this with pictures, measurements and an official response from THX. Lexicon no longer sells this product.

www.audioholics.com

There are more pictures in the article. The author noticed that the Lexicon's external layout looked very similar to the Oppo. First he opened the case, then he realized it was in fact the Oppo player just inside a new case!

Oppo retail price at the time: $499
Lexicon retail price at the time: $3,500

@Azathoth, you underestimated how rich you could get.

 

[capslock]

Dithered 16bit data (as should be present on any competently mastered CD) has it's dither noise at ~90dBFS. No need for a 16bit DAC to have signficantly lower noise, nothing would be gained here.

This implementation is NOT limited by high'ish noise, there isn't. Distortion is also mostly below that noise brickwall as far as I would guess from the avaible data.

Noise shaping dithering should allow much better than 90 or even 98 dB except in the top octave.

 

[Mojo Warrior]

I must be out of the loop. Do I understand correctly that the appeal of this device is the “vintage” DAC chip? I ran across this description (source linked below):

The sonic characteristic of TDA1541A DAC players is very easy to distinguish - after hitting PLAY after trying other DACS you can hear a big difference immediately, BUT I can't describe it at all. It is very hard to put in words. The sound is very rich, full, mature, ripe, analogue, liquid, dynamic, and with huge macro dynamics. It has the best midrange, best treble and very very good bass.
The main difference is: that I like it more than any other DAC chip, it is so ear friendly.

TDA1541A

TDA1541A DAC crown Philips

www.lampizator.eu

This confirms my suspicions of digital gear producing analog sound. I often read the virtues of antique DAC chips producing analog sound (original Sony Playstation console, etc) is they dumb down the source signal so much it is comparable to analog sound reproduction. With a corresponding loss of detail and clarity.

 

[Wuzel]

This confirms my suspicions of digital gear producing analog sound. I often read the virtues of antique DAC chips producing analog sound (original Sony Playstation console, etc) is they dumb down the source signal so much it is comparable to analog sound reproduction. With a corresponding loss of detail and clarity.

The same with Vinyl & Cassette Hype train....
Or tubes and stuff like that.

But - of course, there some interesting DAC Chips from elder days, that can be interesting because of some unique features or technical solutions.... Like some Wolfson Dacs, special the types for the prof. line (earlier DAT ADC/DAC sets...). I love the time domain optimized filter - measurements are not so great, but very unique sound shaping

 

[tecnogadget]

I must be out of the loop. Do I understand correctly that the appeal of this device is the “vintage” DAC chip? I ran across this description (source linked below):

The sonic characteristic of TDA1541A DAC players is very easy to distinguish - after hitting PLAY after trying other DACS you can hear a big difference immediately, BUT I can't describe it at all. It is very hard to put in words. The sound is very rich, full, mature, ripe, analogue, liquid, dynamic, and with huge macro dynamics. It has the best midrange, best treble and very very good bass.
The main difference is: that I like it more than any other DAC chip, it is so ear friendly.

TDA1541A

TDA1541A DAC crown Philips

www.lampizator.eu

I can’t express how much embarrassed I secretly feel of drinking that old Lampizator Kool Aid a decade ago when measurements were simply not available as today.

I wish we get the chance to see a real production Lampizator DAC test-shamed-benched over here haha.

 

[KxDx]

Ah, found it!

It's a Blu-ray, actually. This is a Lexicon BD-30 with an Oppo BDP-83 inside. You can see from this picture of the bottom that they just re-cased it and cut ventilation holes.

The source of this is Audioholics from January, 2010:

Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray Player (Oppo BDP-83 Clone) Review

We discovered the Lexicon BD-30 is an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player with a $3k premium. We prove this with pictures, measurements and an official response from THX. Lexicon no longer sells this product.

www.audioholics.com

There are more pictures in the article. The author noticed that the Lexicon's external layout looked very similar to the Oppo. First he opened the case, then he realized it was in fact the Oppo player just inside a new case!

Oppo retail price at the time: $499
Lexicon retail price at the time: $3,500

@Azathoth, you underestimated how rich you could get.

But the R&D for the custom case-over-case had to be massive.

 

[ousi]

But the R&D for the custom case-over-case had to be massive.

This from another “audiophile” brand, same deal just a couple years earlier

Theta

theta universal transport lampizator

lampizator.eu

 

[Veri]

This from another “audiophile” brand, same deal just a couple years earlier

Theta

theta universal transport lampizator

lampizator.eu

 

[LTig]

This from another “audiophile” brand, same deal just a couple years earlier

Theta

theta universal transport lampizator

lampizator.eu

Great; didn't knew about the Theta. I do wonder though how companies expect that they will not be caught cheating, and that it's almost guaranteed to destroy its reputation.

 

[KSTR]

Noise shaping dithering should allow much better than 90 or even 98 dB except in the top octave.

Sure, with extreme noise shaping you can get better results with bandwidth restriction of say 10kHz
Standard triagular dither then yields -92dB and the most agressive ones may reach -100dB.
This DAC's noise floor is about -94dB wideband and more like -96dB within that resctricted bandwidth.
IMHO the noise penalty can be said to be negligible and may limit performance only when you happen to play standard-dithered digital silence into a noise-wise flawless amp at full bore.