Help with vinyl ripping.

[Gerry609]

Hi everybody,

I am new to this forum and new to analogue. I have just collected my old vinyl records consisting of 7inch and LP's. I want to "rip" these to my computer for playback on my DAP. A lot of these are not available, hence digitizing them. I am bout to buy a REGA - Planar 3 50th Anniversary Edition turntable as my starting point. I was hoping for advice on what phono/analogue to digital device to get. Separate phono and analogue to digital converters or combo (Vincent PHO 701, NAD PP-4, Pro-Ject Phono Box DS2 USB etc.). I am after quality recordings eg. At least 192kHz. Any help or direction in what I need would be greatly appreciated. I haven't bought anything yet, so I am open to any options.

 

[DVDdoug]

If I was buying a turntable I'd seriously look at the AT-LP120XUSB. It's direct drive so it should be reliable with no belts to wear out and it's ready to play with a cartridge, built-in phono preamp, plus USB. IMO - It's not too cheap or too high-end. The USB probably doesn't support 192kHz, but "CD quality" is generally better than human hearing, whereas vinyl is obviously worse than human hearing. Copying vinyl to high-resolution is a bit like copying VHS to Blu-Ray. There's no harm (except bigger files) but it's overkill.

I have a old Technics direct drive turntable that's probably "similar" and I never had any trouble with it. And I have an ART USB Phono Plus. I haven't used it yet... I was having trouble with my existing phono preamp but after I ordered the ART I found a digital copy of the record I was going to digitize. (The ART got a "not recommended" rating here by Amir. I'll probably use it anyway if I need to digitize another record... I don't expect perfection from vinyl.)

If you have a desktop/tower computer you can usually use a regular (analog) phono preamp into line-in on your soundcard (normally blue) Line-in is often good, although the mic preamp on most soundcards/laptops is low-quality.

Or there are lots of higher-end audio interfaces with switchable mic/line inputs, and then you can use the phono preamp of your choice.

You can use Audacity (free) for recording. Your choice of recording software doesn't affect sound quality (assuming no "problems"). It just has to capture the digital audio stream and send it to your hard drive.

Audacity has "Click Removal" and "Repair" effects that may help to "clean up" your recordings.

There are some special-purpose tools for removing-minimizing vinyl clicks & pops. Wave Corrector is automatic and FREE. I've had Wave Repair ($30 USD) for a long time. It offers several repair methods and can do an audibly perfect repair on most (but not all) clicks & pops. it's manual so it only "touches" the audio where you identify a defect, but that downside of that is that it's VERY time consuming. It usually takes me most of a weekend to fix-up a recording. And, Wave Repair doesn't support high resolution audio.

And, I've found that a lot of older recordings are "dull sounding" so sometimes I boost the highs a bit.

 

[Gerry609]

Thanks so much for the reply. I do like and get your "like copying VHS to Blu-Ray" analogy. Never thought of it that way. So I suppose getting "expensive" equipment won't make that much difference to the outcome.

 

[Chrispy]

You've been collecting vinyl but without playing it? I like Doug's advice. I also have an ART Phono Plus that I got to digitize my vinyl but after a few rips just decided I had better things to do with my time, not an issue with the gear/software involved, just the time involved and then it still has the audible issues I don't care for with vinyl (why I stopped buying vinyl a very long time ago)....if I want to pop something on the tt I will mostly for nostalgia but it's pretty rare these days.

 

[Gerry609]

No, through the 70's up until the early 2000's, I played my vinyl records. Then I got married and moved from Australia to the US, leaving behind all of my vinyl up until a few months ago, when I brought all of my vinyl back to the States. I now have the money to get back into listening (my vinyl) and want to digitize songs that I am unable to get.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Parks Audio Waxwing will be perfect for this task, just add a toslink-USB converter and you can rip vinyl to PC, built in click and pop removal , different EQ RIAA setting ant turntable set up tools. Just fantastic, I have the previous model, Puffin

But I would skip Rega and go for a Project debut Pro, preferably the one with Replaceable headshell, I think that is with the S arm. Project has Much better speed stability than Rega when I measured and compared

 

[Gerry609]

Parks Audio Waxwing will be perfect for this task, just add a toslink-USB converter and you can rip vinyl to PC, built in click and pop removal , different EQ RIAA setting ant turntable set up tools. Just fantastic, I have the previous model, Puffin

But I would skip Rega and go for a Project debut Pro, preferably the one with Replaceable headshell, I think that is with the S arm. Project has Much better speed stability than Rega when I measured and compared

Thanks Balle. What about the external power supply for the Rega? Does that make a difference?

 

[Sal1950]

Since your looking at the prospect of having to buy a TT and preamp, getting advise to also purchase some de-clicking gear and other rip enhancing gear I would only recommend you give the whole project some serious consideration. How many albums do
you believe you are "unable to get"? Divide that into the total cost of purchased gear and think it over carefully. Why not just get an inexpensive TT and a streaming subscription and see if going any further really holds any value.
Back around 2010 I ripped 300 LP's using the free software Audacity. It's capable of making perfect digital
rips of whatever analog source you plug into it. But since then I found that for me, it turned out to be an enormous waste of time. I'd much rather listen to any digital source that exists on streaming, CD, whatever. You have your LP's, play them for a while and decide if you really need to invest all the time and effort into ripping them.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Thanks Balle. What about the external power supply for the Rega? Does that make a difference?

Not so much on wow and flutter , but if it has possibilities for speed adjustment that is a great advantage, since most belt drivers will deviate somewhat from 33.33 .

Before any purchase Use a phone app to check the speed stability and strobe disk to check if it runs at correct speed. A good turntable has less than +/- 0.1 % speed variation, v very good if it is 0.05 and bad if >0.2%. The apps are good for relative variation but can be off on absolute speed. Place a tape roll over the spindle so that the phone can rest in centre


A Rega with The NEO mk2 Speed Control box and advanced ELBT belt should be a good combination wrt speed,- that give adjustable speed and good stability (low wow) I would not buy a Rega without those extras. With those extras it is a winning combination compared to other belt drives without addustable speed. Buy a Technics if you want to forget about speed issues.

To see the effect of only the belt quality take a look at this Project with two belt options…one of the belts are very good , the other horrible. The wow numbers cannot be compared directly with what a phone app gives..

Pro-Ject Debut PRO Turntable Package Lab Report

Lab Report Pro-Ject's Debut PRO turntable/arm/MM combination shares the same PSU, motor and MDF chassis as the earlier X1 [HFN Aug '19] and X2 [HFN Nov '19] models but there's a new nickel-plated bearing here, a new arm (bearing) and 1.6kg alloy platter with peripheral TPE damping. Once again...

www.hifinews.com

 

[Gerry609]

Since your looking at the prospect of having to buy a TT and preamp, getting advise to also purchase some de-clicking gear and other rip enhancing gear I would only recommend you give the whole project some serious consideration. How many albums do
you believe you are "unable to get"? Divide that into the total cost of purchased gear and think it over carefully. Why not just get an inexpensive TT and a streaming subscription and see if going any further really holds any value.
Back around 2010 I ripped 300 LP's using the free software Audacity. It's capable of making perfect digital
rips of whatever analog source you plug into it. But since then I found that for me, it turned out to be an enormous waste of time. I'd much rather listen to any digital source that exists on streaming, CD, whatever. You have your LP's, play them for a while and decide if you really need to invest all the time and effort into ripping them.

It's mostly 7" singles, but I will go through and see what is available and what's not. Thanks.

 

[Gerry609]

Not so much on wow and flutter , but if it has possibilities for speed adjustment that is a great advantage, since most belt drivers will deviate somewhat from 33.33 .

Before any purchase Use a phone app to check the speed stability and strobe disk to check if it runs at correct speed. A good turntable has less than +/- 0.1 % speed variation, v very good if it is 0.05 and bad if >0.2%. The apps are good for relative variation but can be off on absolute speed. Place a tape roll over the spindle so that the phone can rest in centre


A Rega with The NEO mk2 Speed Control box and advanced ELBT belt should be a good combination wrt speed,- that give adjustable speed and good stability (low wow) I would not buy a Rega without those extras. With those extras it is a winning combination compared to other belt drives without addustable speed. Buy a Technics if you want to forget about speed issues.

To see the effect of only the belt quality take a look at this Project with two belt options…one of the belts are very good , the other horrible. The wow numbers cannot be compared directly with what a phone app gives..

Pro-Ject Debut PRO Turntable Package Lab Report

Lab Report Pro-Ject's Debut PRO turntable/arm/MM combination shares the same PSU, motor and MDF chassis as the earlier X1 [HFN Aug '19] and X2 [HFN Nov '19] models but there's a new nickel-plated bearing here, a new arm (bearing) and 1.6kg alloy platter with peripheral TPE damping. Once again...

www.hifinews.com

I have been looking at the Rega 50th anniversary edition with external power supply and Exact 2 MM cartridge.

 

[LTig]

I am after quality recordings eg. At least 192kHz.

As long as you use a MM pickup 44.1 or 48 kHz are sufficient. The frequency response of typical MM pickups drops like a rock above 20 kHz.

With a microline needle in an MC pickup you can record signals up to 50 kHz, but only in CD4 (quadrophonic recording with 4 channels, very rare) pressings which need a CD4 processor to extract the signals (could be done in software though). Stereo pressings don't contain real signals (besides noise and distortion) above 20 kHz - and you'll be not able to hear them anyway.

 

[LTig]

It's mostly 7" singles, but I will go through and see what is available and what's not. Thanks.

That was good advice.

You should also check if the singles you want to rip are not too noisy and scratched so that you really want to listen to them. Dust can be cleaned but scratches not. A pickup with a microline needle together with a good phono preamp can extract more information with less audible noise and klicks, and short clicks (dig, not tock) can be fixed in software.

 

[Sal1950]

With a microline needle in an MC pickup you can record signals up to 50 kHz, but only in CD4 (quadrophonic recording with 4 channels, very rare) pressings which need a CD4 processor to extract the signals (could be done in software though). Stereo pressings don't contain real signals (besides noise and distortion) above 20 kHz - and you'll be not able to hear them anyway.

Playable CD4 LP's are very hard to find today. The carrier freq wore off rapidly and were no longer playable..

 

[Gerry609]

As long as you use a MM pickup 44.1 or 48 kHz are sufficient. The frequency response of typical MM pickups drops like a rock above 20 kHz.

With a microline needle in an MC pickup you can record signals up to 50 kHz, but only in CD4 (quadrophonic recording with 4 channels, very rare) pressings which need a CD4 processor to extract the signals (could be done in software though). Stereo pressings don't contain real signals (besides noise and distortion) above 20 kHz - and you'll be not able to hear them anyway.

So 192 is overkill?

 

[LTig]

So 192 is overkill?

Definitely yes.

 

[Gerry609]

Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2, MM/MC Phono Preamp.

 

[Sal1950]

So 192 is overkill?

Drastically overkill. 24/44.1 is just fine. Nothing coming off a LP would require more.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Going to 96 may help a declicker work better though.

 

[LTig]

Going to 96 may help a declicker work better though.

With a pickup that goes higher than 20 kHz (Shibata or line cut needle) I agree. My old Van den Hul MC ONE Special and the new AT33PTG/II both are specified to 50 kHz, but there are not many which go that high.