Help with Dual Subwoofer setup

[HarmonicTHD]

Don’t worry about the actual distances displayed. What it actually is, is delay added so the subs „fit“ better together in very very simple words. The developer talks about the distances topic specifically in one of these YouTube videos.

Your „question mark“ is a typical null caused by wave canceling each other in your room. Almost impossible to avoid, but can be improved by adding more subs. However, if they are steep their effect is difficult to recognize.

 

[Met4L]

You will have nulls in a typically sized room and you will have peaks.
You will never entirely overcome them with 2 subs.
The nulls will be much worse in some areas and much better in others.
Don't worry about that, only worry about the listening position.
The larger the room generally the less the issue presents.
In a small room peaking and nulling can be tremendous and again can never be fully overcome with 2 subs.*

What you have there is pretty good. You have steeper peaks vs nulls and by taking some energy out of the peaks the results ought to sound good.

*you don't nee to over come all of this. In a high resolution graph things can look very different from how they sound. In life humans hear in about the equivalent of 1/3 octave bands. Unlike in most of the spectrum, High Q bass peaks however will likely be very audible. Use high resolution to remove narrow band( High Q) bass peaks and then look at the graph in 1/3 octave resolution to get an idea of how you will perceive the nulls. Nulls are much less audible and the ones you have there are not bad considering the sub optimal subwoofer positioning.

Optimal positioning in a typical Rectangular room is 1 of the 2 below. You will have to do the best you can with a unique shape and small sized room and remember a bed is a huge bass trap.
Both of these still have compromises one has to make and are from Toole's book and other sources.

I would not EQ to "0" or flat either. Hearing is much less sensitive to bass as it gets lower and the brain also expects rising bass in small rooms. I would have at least a 6db boost by 20 or 30hrz. Your subs may not hit that lowest octave zone well, however note my set-up has 6db of boost by 40-60hrz so I'd try that with your gear. Let the bass rise from about 100-150hrz to 40hrz with +6db by 40hrz. The +6db at 40hrz sounds about twice as loud in that frequency zone. ("twice as loud" is perceived as about 10db in the midrange and about 5db in low bass)

Yea, i have to modify the curve from audissey app and pump the on 30-60hz..audissey app is a pain in the ass..really... Yea the result in reality is not bad.. i think what i will need when i will buy my house .. is a pretty big cinema room with other better subs .. ahaha For now i have to find the best with what i have.

 

[Met4L]

Don’t worry about the actual distances displayed. What it actually is, is delay added so the subs „fit“ better together in very very simple words. The developer talks about the distances topic specifically in one of these YouTube videos.

Your „question mark“ is a typical null caused by wave canceling each other in your room. Almost impossible to avoid, but can be improved by adding more subs. However, if they are steep their effect is difficult to recognize.

Thanks.. seems pretty steep. I smoothed 1/48. Do you think audissey curve is better?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Thanks.. seems pretty steep. I smoothed 1/48. Do you think audissey curve is better?

Yes.

Let me try to address your other concerns.
First set the phase to 0 on your subs and don’t touch it. The „distances“ settings automatically will take care of any phase adjustments.

The big difference is due to Audyssey calibrating everything to the 80dB or 85dB. I don’t remember exactly. The point is that if you turn up the volume or sometimes called gain on your subs then Audyssey will adjust it down and vice versa within a range of max plus minus 12dB. So don’t touch your gain / volume of your subs after calibration. What levels did Audyssey set after calibration?

How much distance did you have btw the Audyssey measurements? The developers recommend about 30cm.

The tilt of the REW measurements is a bit harder to diagnose from a distance. Did you set a tilted preference curve in the Audyssey app? Also I noticed you are using the Audyssey mic plugged into your PC? If yes, this is not really recommended, as the mic requires a calibration curve which is stored in your receiver and corrects an uneven frequency response caused by the mic. Get a UMIK1, which comes with a calibration file, which you then use in REW.

 

[Met4L]

Yes.

Let me try to address your other concerns.
First set the phase to 0 on your subs and don’t touch it. The „distances“ settings automatically will take care of any phase adjustments.

The big difference is due to Audyssey calibrating everything to the 80dB or 85dB. I don’t remember exactly. The point is that if you turn up the volume or sometimes called gain on your subs then Audyssey will adjust it down and vice versa within a range of max plus minus 12dB. So don’t touch your gain / volume of your subs after calibration. What levels did Audyssey set after calibration?

How much distance did you have btw the Audyssey measurements? The developers recommend about 30cm.

The tilt of the REW measurements is a bit harder to diagnose from a distance. Did you set a tilted preference curve in the Audyssey app? Also I noticed you are using the Audyssey mic plugged into your PC? If yes, this is not really recommended, as the mic requires a calibration curve which is stored in your receiver and corrects an uneven frequency response caused by the mic. Get a UMIK one, which comes with a calibration file, which you then use in REW.

Phase was at 0 both subs.. i didn't touch. I calibrated the sub volume with audissey and mic connected to av receiver ( obviously ). The receiver was showing 75db ( into the green bar ) for both subs. Then i blocked audissey calibration and i re-initialized the receive in order to remove all old settings.

I connected the mic from av to pc.

After that the subs were 0 db both and 3,60m as distance for both. I have set the real distances and i launched the REW calibrations.

Then i connected the mic on receiver and i launched audissey calibration. Then once in i have set 0db on both subs ( they were about -9 both after audissey ). Then i connected the mic to pc and i launched again rew.

Ok, next step buy umik-1 mic.

 

[-Matt-]

Any chance you can get one of the subs to fit in the corner behind the door, or next to the wardrobe?
(With the other one most likely at position 2, or in place of one of the night tables).

 

[-Matt-]

Does the X3400h have the option for Dynamic EQ (in the Audyssey menu)?

If so, I find this gives a large bass boost; perhaps try with and without this feature.

 

[Chrispy]

Does the X3400h have the option for Dynamic EQ (in the Audyssey menu)?

If so, I find this gives a large bass boost; perhaps try with and without this feature.

All the Denon avrs do as far as I know....and you can modify it with RLO for various content....

 

[-Matt-]

Indeed.
(RLO being reference level offset)

I tend to prefer Dynamic Eq on, with 10dB RLO (but I listen at fairly quiet volumes).

 

[Met4L]

Any chance you can get one of the subs to fit in the corner behind the door, or next to the wardrobe?
(With the other one most likely at position 2, or in place of one of the night tables).

View attachment 204523

Yes i can put near the wardrobe..and position 2 .. i have to test. Thanks

 

[Met4L]

Does the X3400h have the option for Dynamic EQ (in the Audyssey menu)?

If so, I find this gives a large bass boost; perhaps try with and without this feature.

I use dynamic eq when i listen at movies at low volume levels. But when i watch a film during the weekend generally is disabled because a pump up the volume .. ahaha

 

[Elkerton]

With reference to section 4 paragraph 3 of https://audioroundtable.com/misc/Welti_Multisub.pdf and your measurement of the sub at 3 position in the room, which looks nearly perfect, I would try and measure one sub to the right of your wardrobe if you can move it a little. You might get similar results there.

 

[Met4L]

With reference to section 4 paragraph 3 of https://audioroundtable.com/misc/Welti_Multisub.pdf and your measurement of the sub at 3 position in the room, which looks nearly perfect, I would try and measure one sub to the right of your wardrobe if you can move it a little. You might get similar results there.

Mmm i have to check.. but i think is impossible to fit the sub in that position..i can't move from that.. and also i need a wireless extender to fit the sub in that position. Thanks for your advice