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Help! Hifiman he400se and Audient iD4 MKII USB-C

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shot4d

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Hello

I want to buy a good audio interface that has a lot of power in volume, because I had the fiio k5 pro and it gave good volume but not enough as I wanted, so I was researching in forums and found this image: https://ibb.co/TmM8r8w

Where it says that the Audient iD4 MKII is the one with more power and better sound quality, but in the forum it only explains that the iD4 MKII gives enough power for headphones above 600 ohms and the problem with the Hifiman he400se is not the ohms , if not the sensitivity that is 91dB, then I don't know if the iD4 MKII is the right one for my Hifiman he400se, I also saw in a forum that the Audient evo 4 has enough power for the Hifiman but I don't know if it's true and the iD4 MKII is more powerful and with better sound quality than the evo 4 as I see in the image table so logically it should give me a very powerful volume and excellent sound quality.

But as I said, I still don't know if it can work for my hifiman he400se or not.

I need an expert opinion.

this is the table where i mention iD4 MKII and other audio interfaces: https://ibb.co/TmM8r8w

and I also want an audio interface because I want to connect a microphone in the future but for me the most important thing is the sound quality for my Hifiman he400se and that it gives me more power in volume than the Fiio k5 pro.

These are the specifications of the Audient iD4 MKII: https://audient.com/products/audio-interfaces/id4/tech-specs/

Note: I know there are other very good dacs/amps but I don't have the budget for the money and they are not available on Amazon and as I said before I also want to connect a microphone in the future and can only buy the Audient iD4 MKII or the Audient EVO 4 because they are the only ones available on amazon and at a good price, but I don't know if they will work for my Hifiman as I mentioned before.
 
1) A good way to start is to understand how much juice a headphone amp needs to have to drive your headphones. Here are a couple resources:
That will tell you how much power, voltage, and current the amp needs to have depending on what max SPL you're shooting for. (And you'll want to give yourself some room there because if you end up using EQ that will typically lower the gain a bit.)

2) Look at Amir's reviews for audio interfaces. You'll notice a trend when he measures the headphone amp section of these devices: they're fairly weak.
Even the $1000 USD RME Babyface Pro FS doesn't have tons of power.

3) I don't think your HiFiMan HE400se's are super difficult to drive, but maybe you are gunning for super high SPLs. As such I think your best bet is to buy an economical (but high performing) audio interface, then buy an economical (but high performing) headphone amp that has the power you want. Don't waste your money buying something that doesn't work for you, even if that means waiting a bit to save up for devices that will work for you. (eBay is also an option to save money, especially when looking at audio interfaces.) Plenty of options for both of those if you check out the reviews on ASR:
Unfortunately there's no power / voltage / current filters in that tool if you're looking for headphone amps, but you can quickly get a list of amps in your price range that measure well. After that you can look up the specs to see if they have enough to drive your headphones. This amp has SOTA measurements but i think it has way more power than you need; there are other more affordable options with enough juice for your headphones.
 
For the HE400SE you need 100mW minim @32OHm.

The 32Ohm clause is crucial. That should drive it easily to reference levels.

Around 1W @32Ohm is enough to destroy your ears.
 
Here's what kind of power you need at 25Ω to drive the HE400se, according to Amir's review:
Screenshot_20220215-154939_Chrome.jpg

Audio interfaces traditionally have pretty weak current capabilities, so while they may drive high impedance headphones with ease, they struggle when it comes to low impedance stuff.

As abdo123 said, pay attention to the output power @32Ω spec, that's close enough to the 24.75Ω that Amir measured for the HE400se.
 
staticV3 said:
Here's what kind of power you need at 25Ω to drive the HE400se, according to Amir's review:
View attachment 186850

Audio interfaces traditionally have pretty weak current capabilities, so while they may drive high impedance headphones with ease, they struggle when it comes to low impedance stuff.

As abdo123 said, pay attention to the output power @32Ω spec, that's close enough to the 24.75Ω that Amir measured for the HE400se.
Click to expand...
but there is something I don't understand, it turns out that last year I had the 600 ohm beyerdynamic 880 pro and I already had the fiio k5 pro as I mentioned before and it didn't give me enough volume power either and my solution was to buy the "RODE AI-1 USB-C" audio interface that did not have a power supply like the fiio k5 pro, it only connected to my pc with the usb-c cable and with that it gave power to turn on and also had much more power in volume than the Fiio k5 pro, I literally had 3 times more power in volume my RODE AI-1, but in the end I ended up selling it because I changed the DT 880 pro for the hifiman he400se and I thought that with my fiio k5 pro I could have enough volume but it is not, now that's my dilemma, that the RODE AI-1 also appears in the graph that I showed in the post and the Audient iD4 MKII USB-C has more power in mW and more powerful in volume according to the graph that I show and also the iD4 MKII only feeds with a usb-c cable to the pc just like the Rode AI-1 did.
So I don't understand why the fiio k5 pro that has a power supply should have more power, but the RODE AI-1 has much more power in terms of volume as it happened to me with my old DT 880 pro of 600 ohm and the RODE AI- 1 is it only powered by the pc with a usb-c cable? It's weird and it confuses me.
Now looking at the specs of the Audient iD4 MKII USB-C, as I said, it packs more power than the RODE AI-1:

Audient iD4 MKII USB-C SPECIFICATIONS:

PEAK LEVEL @ 30R: 2.59V Peak, 1.827V RMS, 223mW

PEAK LEVEL @ 62R: 4.18 V peak, 2.95 V RMS, 280 mW

PEAK LEVEL @ 600R: 7.72V Peak, 5.46V RMS, 100mW

So tell me what should I do? My budget is only $200 and I can only buy from Amazon.
So should you buy the iD4 MKII USB-C? Or which one do you recommend that has more sufficient volume power and good sound quality for my hifiman he400se but with a budget of 200 dollars and that is available on amazon.
 
abdo123 said:
For the HE400SE you need 100mW minim @32OHm.

The 32Ohm clause is crucial. That should drive it easily to reference levels.

Around 1W @32Ohm is enough to destroy your ears.
Click to expand...
but there is something I don't understand, it turns out that last year I had the 600 ohm beyerdynamic 880 pro and I already had the fiio k5 pro as I mentioned before and it didn't give me enough volume power either and my solution was to buy the "RODE AI-1 USB-C" audio interface that did not have a power supply like the fiio k5 pro, it only connected to my pc with the usb-c cable and with that it gave power to turn on and also had much more power in volume than the Fiio k5 pro, I literally had 3 times more power in volume my RODE AI-1, but in the end I ended up selling it because I changed the DT 880 pro for the hifiman he400se and I thought that with my fiio k5 pro I could have enough volume but it is not, now that's my dilemma, that the RODE AI-1 also appears in the graph that I showed in the post and the Audient iD4 MKII USB-C has more power in mW and more powerful in volume according to the graph that I show and also the iD4 MKII only feeds with a usb-c cable to the pc just like the Rode AI-1 did.
So I don't understand why the fiio k5 pro that has a power supply should have more power, but the RODE AI-1 has much more power in terms of volume as it happened to me with my old DT 880 pro of 600 ohm and the RODE AI- 1 is it only powered by the pc with a usb-c cable? It's weird and it confuses me.
Now looking at the specs of the Audient iD4 MKII USB-C, as I said, it packs more power than the RODE AI-1:

Audient iD4 MKII USB-C SPECIFICATIONS:

PEAK LEVEL @ 30R: 2.59V Peak, 1.827V RMS, 223mW

PEAK LEVEL @ 62R: 4.18 V peak, 2.95 V RMS, 280 mW

PEAK LEVEL @ 600R: 7.72V Peak, 5.46V RMS, 100mW

So tell me what should I do? My budget is only $200 and I can only buy from Amazon.
So should you buy the iD4 MKII USB-C? Or which one do you recommend that has more sufficient volume power and good sound quality for my hifiman he400se but with a budget of 200 dollars and that is available on amazon.
 
shot4d said:
but there is something I don't understand, it turns out that last year I had the 600 ohm beyerdynamic 880 pro and I already had the fiio k5 pro as I mentioned before and it didn't give me enough volume power either and my solution was to buy the "RODE AI-1 USB-C" audio interface that did not have a power supply like the fiio k5 pro, it only connected to my pc with the usb-c cable and with that it gave power to turn on and also had much more power in volume than the Fiio k5 pro, I literally had 3 times more power in volume my RODE AI-1, but in the end I ended up selling it because I changed the DT 880 pro for the hifiman he400se and I thought that with my fiio k5 pro I could have enough volume but it is not, now that's my dilemma, that the RODE AI-1 also appears in the graph that I showed in the post and the Audient iD4 MKII USB-C has more power in mW and more powerful in volume according to the graph that I show and also the iD4 MKII only feeds with a usb-c cable to the pc just like the Rode AI-1 did.
So I don't understand why the fiio k5 pro that has a power supply should have more power, but the RODE AI-1 has much more power in terms of volume as it happened to me with my old DT 880 pro of 600 ohm and the RODE AI- 1 is it only powered by the pc with a usb-c cable? It's weird and it confuses me.
Now looking at the specs of the Audient iD4 MKII USB-C, as I said, it packs more power than the RODE AI-1:

Audient iD4 MKII USB-C SPECIFICATIONS:

PEAK LEVEL @ 30R: 2.59V Peak, 1.827V RMS, 223mW

PEAK LEVEL @ 62R: 4.18 V peak, 2.95 V RMS, 280 mW

PEAK LEVEL @ 600R: 7.72V Peak, 5.46V RMS, 100mW

So tell me what should I do? My budget is only $200 and I can only buy from Amazon.
So should you buy the iD4 MKII USB-C? Or which one do you recommend that has more sufficient volume power and good sound quality for my hifiman he400se but with a budget of 200 dollars and that is available on amazon.
Click to expand...

Man I don’t want to be ‘that guy’ but the levels you’re asking would cause permanent hearing damage right after around 15 mins of daily use.

Are you sure you want that or that your current device is not enough?
 
shot4d said:
last year I had the 600 ohm beyerdynamic 880 pro and I already had the fiio k5 pro as I mentioned before and it didn't give me enough volume power either and my solution was to buy the "RODE AI-1 USB-C"
Click to expand...
That makes sense as the Rode AI-1 has about 37% higher perceived loudness at high impedance.
shot4d said:
I literally had 3 times more power in volume my RODE AI-1
Click to expand...
That would make sense if you forgot to put the K5Pro into high gain. K5Pro Low Gain -> Rode AI-1 is a x2.73 increase in perceived loudness at high impedance. K5Pro High Gain -> Rode AI-1 is just x1.37 increase.
 
abdo123 said:
Man I don’t want to be ‘that guy’ but the levels you’re asking would cause permanent hearing damage right after around 15 mins of daily use.

Are you sure you want that or that your current device is not enough?
Click to expand...
the k5 fiio pro gives a medium decent volume but there are low volume notes like movies, songs pod cat audio where the k5 fiio pro doesn't give enough volume power so i need something more powerful just to turn up the amount of volume a bit, but I'm not going to give it the maximum volume either because I can damage my eardrums.
 
staticV3 said:
That makes sense as the Rode AI-1 has about 37% higher perceived loudness at high impedance.

That would make sense if you forgot to put the K5Pro into high gain. K5Pro Low Gain -> Rode AI-1 is a x2.73 increase in perceived loudness at high impedance. K5Pro High Gain -> Rode AI-1 is just x1.37 increase.
Click to expand...
but the Audient iD4 MKII USB-C is more powerful than the RODE AI-1.
But in conclusion, what do you recommend? because I don't know much about the audio interface, I'm new to the subject. And as I said in the post, the K5 Pro does not give me enough volume that I need, so what do you recommend for my hifiman he400se with a budget of 200 dollars and only on amazon?
 
shot4d said:
but the Audient iD4 MKII USB-C is more powerful than the RODE AI-1.
But in conclusion, what do you recommend? because I don't know much about the audio interface, I'm new to the subject. And as I said in the post, the K5 Pro does not give me enough volume that I need, so what do you recommend for my hifiman he400se with a budget of 200 dollars and only on amazon?
Click to expand...
Amazon of what country?
 
abdo123 said:
Man I don’t want to be ‘that guy’ but the levels you’re asking would cause permanent hearing damage right after around 15 mins of daily use.
Click to expand...
Well, if you use that output only for brief peaks on a few recordings while using 6-10dB of bass boost... IOW, your concern's certainly valid when cranking up low-DR music, but that's not the only reason to need headroom.

@shot4d, understand that the 880s & 400s are very different loads, so you'll have to compare amps at both impedances. IMO, 2.59V peaks should satisfy almost anybody with 400s. In addition, the 400's flat load will avoid FR changes with high output impedance, but the Audient amps will not play nicely with all other phones.
 
HammerSandwich said:
Well, if you use that output only for brief peaks on a few recordings while using 6-10dB of bass boost... IOW, your concern's certainly valid when cranking up low-DR music, but that's not the only reason to need headroom.

@shot4d, understand that the 880s & 400s are very different loads, so you'll have to compare amps at both impedances. IMO, 2.59V peaks should satisfy almost anybody with 400s. In addition, the 400's flat load will avoid FR changes with high output impedance, but the Audient amps will not play nicely with all other phones.
Click to expand...
I don't use this for phones.
So tell me what should I do?
As I said, the fiio k5 pro doesn't give enough for what I need.
what do you recommmend me to do?
I only have a budget of $200 and the Audient I mentioned is priced at $199.
So help me which one to choose for my hifiman for more volume with good sound quality but that can be bought on amazon for 200 dollars and can be sent to Colombia, because I live in Colombia.
because I have seen other more powerful dac/amps but they are priced at 500 or 600 dollars and I don't have that budget.
 
shot4d said:
As I said in the post, I have the fiio k5 pro but then the Topping DX3 Pro would give me more power in terms of volume?
Click to expand...
Are you sure that your K5Pro is in high gain? You said that the Rode AI-1 gave you 3x more volume. That indicates you compared K5Pro Low gain to the AI-1.
 
with the RODE AI-1 it was an example with the 600 ohm DT 880 pro, but then I sold my dt 880 pro and also sold my RODE AI-1 and then I bought my hifiman he400se and kept the fiio k5 pro because I thought it was powerful enough in volume for my hifimian he400se that is I never used the hifiman with the RODE AI.
What I need is a dac/amp or audio interface that gives me more power in terms of volume than the fiio k5 pro.
That is why I ask you if the Topping DX3 Pro is more powerful in volume than the fiio k5 pro for my hifiman? and the sound quality is also better?
 
K5Pro in High gain will do ~5.45Vrms at 24.75Ω -> 118+dB SPL with the HE400se.
If the K5Pro is not loud enough, then:

A: You forgot to put the K5Pro into High Gain
1957029.png

B: Your DAC is not supplying the full 2.0Vrms -> check with a multimeter

C: your PC is using heavy software attenuation at some point -> try foobar200 with Wasapi Exclusive or ASIO

D: you have severe hearing damage and should probably seek medical attention

The DX3Pro+ can put out ~6.65Vrms at 24.75Ω, so only about 13% higher perceived loudness.
 
Last edited:
staticV3 said:
K5Pro in High gain will do ~5.45Vrms at 24.75Ω -> 118+dB SPL with the HE400se.
If the K5Pro is not loud enough, then:

A: You forgot to put the K5Pro into High Gain
View attachment 186938

B: Your DAC is not supplying the full 2.0Vrms -> check with a multimeter

C: your PC is using heavy software attenuation at some point -> try foobar200 with Wasapi Exclusive or ASIO

D: you have severe hearing damage and should probably seek medical attention

The DX3Pro+ can put out ~6.65Vrms at 24.75Ω, so only about 13% higher perceived loudness.
Click to expand...
friend I'm not slow I know how to make the k5 pro work very well and I have it in high gain as you can see in the image I also use foobar2000 but that is already for .flac music with songs that do have high gain and some videos that have a volume quite loud with the VCL player BUT that's why I said before that there are some songs, videos, movies and podcasts that unfortunately have low volume and the k5 pro can't reach a good volume, that's why I need more power, but there are also songs like in Tidal, videos and movies where I can if I can listen with the K5 Pro at a very high volume but I go back and repeat that not all songs, videos and movies are not with a good amount of volume and I have used an equalizer but I don't like the sound that way.
This is why I look for a higher volume dac/amp when I have to listen to certain songs in low tones or movies.
and according to what you say the dx3pro has 13% more volume than the fiio k5 pro?
But do they both have the same sound quality?
 
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