headphone amp for LCD-5

[MalinYamato]

I am an audioholic on a budget who found out that my LCD-5 sounds much better with a better amp, but the one I listened to was way too expensive. Currently, I am using Singer SA1 and I am considering the followings. Which one, or are there any better than these around USD 1000 to 2500? I am right now in a bubble of alternatives. Red is my favorite color Suggestions are very much appreciated.

Expensive power supply upgrade options are getting common
I am very curious how those expensive superchargers may improve the sound. OOR amp has a very big companion power supply Hypsos (EUR 1 301), which is an upgrade to the standard power supply which comes with OOR. I have heard discussions here at ASR that such do not improve sound much and are more or less snake-oil. The Burson 5V supercharger, also an upgrade from the standard power supply that comes with Soloist 3X GT costs EUR 400 here in Europa -- Insane. How much do those upgrades really improve sound? There are very few reviewers out there and those who do review this seem to be sponsored. Ifi Pro ICAN Signature has a high-end power supply included as standard iPower Elite.

Burson Super Charger 5A --- and --- ifi power Elite

 

[Human Bass]

If you really are on a budget, get the Topping A90. It's powerful, ultra clean and bal in and out. And just 500 bucks.

 

[MalinYamato]

If you really are on a budget, get the Topping A90. It's powerful, ultra clean and bal in and out. And just 500 bucks.

the one I have Singxer SA-1 sounds better than A90, according to my taste. I am considering the next step above that.

 

[tifune]

the one I have Singxer SA-1 sounds better than A90, according to my taste. I am considering the next step above that.

What are your criteria? From the measurements offered here, the A90 actually is the objectively better amp given the LCD5's impedance. Subjectively, I guess it depends on if you like distortion, are hard of hearing, or want to be hard of hearing. The Singxer you have can hit 125dB on LCD5 with distortion ~80dB below fundamental - not sure how to get better than that within the confines of the human auditory system.

 

[MalinYamato]

What are your criteria? From the measurements offered here, the A90 actually is the objectively better amp given the LCD5's impedance. Subjectively, I guess it depends on if you like distortion, are hard of hearing, or want to be hard of hearing. The Singxer you have can hit 125dB on LCD5 with distortion ~80dB below fundamental - not sure how to get better than that within the confines of the human auditory system.

I don't know much about the tech and measurements. I listened to both and I like Singxer SA-1 more. Perhaps for others may not like SA-1 as much.

 

[NDRQ]

I don't know much about the tech and measurements. I listened to both and I like Singxer SA-1 more. Perhaps for others may not like SA-1 as much.

Then maybe go and find an ezoteric site where some believer can give you a tip..

 

[fieldcar]

Singxer SA-1 sounds better than A90

Well, no.
I doubt anyone on this planet could possibly detect any audible difference between a stack at 100dB SINAD and 120dB SINAD, much less 120.6dB vs 121.2dB SINAD.

Take the klippel listening test, find out how crappy our ears are compared to SOTA audio, and save some cash. WIN.

Listening Test

www.klippel.de

I get about -39dB on a great day with good IEM's. I honestly stop caring after this point. I'm perfectly happy with a $9 apple dongle DAC at 98dB SINAD. I can't tell the difference between the dongle DAC and my D10Balanced + THX 789 stack.

This is the first step to recovery. We're all rooting for ya!

 

[RickSanchez]

or are there any better than these around USD 1000 to 2500?

Just curious: why do you believe that the only headphone amps that could provide an improvement over the Singxer SA-1 have to cost at least $1,000 USD?

 

[MalinYamato]

so, an apple dongle is an endgame for you? Does Amir use an apple dongle as his daily driver?

 

[MalinYamato]

Just curious: why do you believe that the only headphone amps that could provide an improvement over the Singxer SA-1 have to cost at least $1,000 USD

I cannot afford more than that and the amps I am looking at cost that much and are said to work great with my phones... Does it make sense to upgrade my Singxer? I am confused about audio tech!

 

[jae]

LCD-5 is 90 dB/mW @14 ohms. It is a planar so I am assuming the impedance will be flat throughout the frequency response. You can use a headphone calculator and plug in these manufacturer specs to calculate how much power, RMS voltage/current you will need to drive the headphones to blisteringly loud volumes. Then, compare that with manufacturer specs or third measurements/reviews to see if the amp will provide that power cleanly. Luckily you will find your Singxer already measured right here on ASR and is more than sufficient for these headphones and practically all others. Of the options in your picture I would choose the Singxer over all of them in terms of performance, and it is also much cheaper. Swapping the Singxer for something else will simply not improve your sound quality at all, so the only "upgrade" you could possibly get is from extra features or outputs, not sound quality (in fact replacing the Singxer with those other products will technically be a downgrade of sound quality in practically all cases, although it would not really be audible).

If you really wanted to "upgrade", I would consider an amp/dac combo unit so there is one less gadget and less cables making a mess around your desk. If you want to spend more money on the hobby maybe try new headphones out? While expensive stuff like the LCD-5 sounds great, there are much cheaper headphones and even IEMs that also sound amazing as well that you could use in other settings like on a train or at work in an office to enjoy music. If you are getting bored or looking for new sonic experiences, you could also try using EQ on your existing headphones, like experimenting with target curves or using AutoEQ to tune to neutral/harman and experiencing your music in new ways- all of which are free to do. Since you already have great headphones you could consider getting a small pair of speakers like Neumann or Genelec and explore the world of speakers.

 

[jae]

In regards to those external PSUs, you are correct that many of them are snake oil. In some cases they will improve the power handling of the amp which could provide some situational performance with headphones that need to swing atypical amounts of voltage, but in many cases have trade offs. Most modern headphones simply just don't have these power requirements except for a few outliers. The Ferrum OOR and Hypsos you mentioned for example have been measured by goldensound (https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/27/ferrum-oor-and-hypsos-measurements/) and the sonic performance actually goes -down- when using the expensive external PSU in some cases like with low impedance headphones/iems. The correct solution to this is simply buying a well engineered amp that has the power you need from the get go (like your Singxer). The sad reality is, most of these "well-engineered" amps are the <$1000 chinese amps you see getting top ratings here compared to those $2000-4000 expensive boutique systems. The tradeoff is that the expensive systems might look a bit nicer or have better chassis, warranty, or more inputs, but very rarely are they "better" if transparent sound reproduction and affordability is the primary goal.

If I had money burning a hole in my pocket and really wanted something super extravagent, I might be inclined to buy an HPA4. But products like A90, Singxer etc are at the pinnacle and what I would suggest to anyone who wanted a dedicated headphone/pre amp.

 

[MalinYamato]

LOL -- everything more expensive than an apple dongle is snake oil --

 

[Vini darko]

A topping pa5 speaker amp will do the job. You'd need to make a balanced adaptor to use it (4 speaker wires to female xlr). Should be good for about 20W into 14Ω.

 

[Leiker535]

A topping pa5 speaker amp will do the job. You'd need to make a balanced adaptor to use it (4 speaker wires to female xlr). Should be good for about 20W into 14Ω.

This. After this the only amplifier you'd need to concern yourself about is the one inside your hearing aids.

Joking aside, try doing a blind test between amps to see if you can spot a difference. Also, seeing you have already more than a hundred messages on the forum, I'm surprised you've only encountered this posture now.

 

[Human Bass]

Audeze headphones respond really, really well to EQ. So playing with with EQ is infinitely cheaper and more effective than trying amps. Take advantage of that.

 

[jae]

so, an apple dongle is an endgame for you? Does Amir use an apple dongle as his daily driver?

LOL -- everything more expensive than an apple dongle is snake oil --

To my memory the apple dongle has a SINAD of 98 dB. 96-99 dB is the point at which CD quality is wholly transparent, providing other parameters like the frequency response etc is flat. The absolute limits of human hearing would correspond to ~115-116 dB. As others have alluded to, the absolute threshold in sound that someone could detect in a normal, practical music listening setting is lower than both of these because of things like background noise, your own internally emitted noises, auditory masking, not to mention other practical processes in how the music is mixed and mastered. So in reality, higher and higher SINAD numbers are generally a dick-waving contest in engineering, although we tend to appreciate those products over here because they are generally well-engineered products in other regards. On the other side, higher and higher prices are generally a contest in how to best fool a consumer into buying a shiny new box.

Beyond things like noise and distortion and inputs and outputs on an amplifier, the only thing you really have to worry about as a consumer is power. The issue with dongles is that many are obviously limited by power and many don't have any "features" like volume control and other outputs. Dongles are generally intended for portables and/or less demanding headphones, and such headphones are designed to be efficient and function at low power. This is because it obviously would make no sense to have a portable device that uses a ton of power and drains your phone battery very quickly, or if meant to be used in a device like a random phone or computer headphone jack that won't have the power capabilities of a robust, purpose-built amplifier. The point I'm getting at here, is if you used a non-demanding device with a $10 Apple dongle that measures well compared to a $4000 amplification system that measures well, you would absolutely NOT be able to discern between the two unless there was some other issue like an electronic flaw or quirk in one of the products. The only practical difference would be how you're interacting with the product (using software control to change the volume of a dongle versus maybe a knob on a dedicated amplifier).

Audeze has been moving to more efficient designs that are not massively power hungry to expand their consumer base and prevent the need for niche specialised equipment which has been a barrier to boutique headphone listening. If you do what I suggested in my previous post of using a headphone calculator, and you look at the published specs/review of the an Apple dongle, you will see that it is sufficient to get the LCD-5 up to acceptably loud levels as it is not a particularly hard headphone to drive. And if you needed to exceed those levels and go well beyond 100 dB (lets say you wanted an amp capable of doing 108-115 dB transients with ease, which I would consider to be the absolute loudest you should go for short periods of time- the equivalent of having a large orchestra or band playing loudly in your face) then your Singxer should already have these power requirements completely covered for you. This is why we are suggesting to stick with your Singxer, it is a top measuring amp with plenty of power. OK, there may be one or two weird outlier headphones that it might have problems driving to stupid-loud-orchestra-in-your-face levels, but it will still drive them adequately and you would not be able to tell the difference in a blind test with matched volumes.

Remember, the purpose of an amplifier it to amplify your low-level signal from your source/dac. If it is engineered well and has no problems with reproducing a flat, transparent signal from 20hz-20khz, the only thing that will change your perception of sound is power which corresponds to peak loudness. And there is a certain point where we can only listen to music so loud before it becomes fatiguing, takes away from the music itself, or becomes a health hazard.

 

[MalinYamato]

To my memory the apple dongle has a SINAD of 98 dB. 96-99 dB is the point at which CD quality is wholly transparent, providing other parameters like the frequency response etc is flat. The absolute limits of human hearing would correspond to ~115-116 dB. As others have alluded to, the absolute threshold in sound that someone could detect in a normal, practical music listening setting is lower than both of these because of things like background noise, your own internally emitted noises, auditory masking, not to mention other practical processes in how the music is mixed and mastered. So in reality, higher and higher SINAD numbers are generally a dick-waving contest in engineering, although we tend to appreciate those products over here because they are generally well-engineered products in other regards. On the other side, higher and higher prices are generally a contest in how to best fool a consumer into buying a shiny new box.

Beyond things like noise and distortion and inputs and outputs on an amplifier, the only thing you really have to worry about as a consumer is power. The issue with dongles is that many are obviously limited by power and many don't have any "features" like volume control and other outputs. Dongles are generally intended for portables and/or less demanding headphones, and such headphones are designed to be efficient and function at low power. This is because it obviously would make no sense to have a portable device that uses a ton of power and drains your phone battery very quickly, or if meant to be used in a device like a random phone or computer headphone jack that won't have the power capabilities of a robust, purpose-built amplifier. The point I'm getting at here, is if you used a non-demanding device with a $10 Apple dongle that measures well compared to a $4000 amplification system that measures well, you would absolutely NOT be able to discern between the two unless there was some other issue like an electronic flaw or quirk in one of the products. The only practical difference would be how you're interacting with the product (using software control to change the volume of a dongle versus maybe a knob on a dedicated amplifier).

Audeze has been moving to more efficient designs that are not massively power hungry to expand their consumer base and prevent the need for niche specialised equipment which has been a barrier to boutique headphone listening. If you do what I suggested in my previous post of using a headphone calculator, and you look at the published specs/review of the an Apple dongle, you will see that it is sufficient to get the LCD-5 up to acceptably loud levels as it is not a particularly hard headphone to drive. And if you needed to exceed those levels and go well beyond 100 dB (lets say you wanted an amp capable of doing 108-115 dB transients with ease, which I would consider to be the absolute loudest you should go for short periods of time- the equivalent of having a large orchestra or band playing loudly in your face) then your Singxer should already have these power requirements completely covered for you. This is why we are suggesting to stick with your Singxer, it is a top measuring amp with plenty of power. OK, there may be one or two weird outlier headphones that it might have problems driving to stupid-loud-orchestra-in-your-face levels, but it will still drive them adequately and you would not be able to tell the difference in a blind test with matched volumes.

Remember, the purpose of an amplifier it to amplify your low-level signal from your source/dac. If it is engineered well and has no problems with reproducing a flat, transparent signal from 20hz-20khz, the only thing that will change your perception of sound is power which corresponds to peak loudness. And there is a certain point where we can only listen to music so loud before it becomes fatiguing, takes away from the music itself, or becomes a health hazard.

Thank you so much for your most valuable information based on the expertise and experience that I don't have, and I am now convinced to keep my Singxer SA-1. I am really thankful for your and you guys' efforts in explaining this stuff to me, a lady who does not know the gears but is prepared to invest in the best possible stuff to please my ears more.

 

[odyo]

Well, no.
I doubt anyone on this planet could possibly detect any audible difference between a stack at 100dB SINAD and 120dB SINAD, much less 120.6dB vs 121.2dB SINAD.

Take the klippel listening test, find out how crappy our ears are compared to SOTA audio, and save some cash. WIN.

Listening Test

www.klippel.de

I get about -39dB on a great day with good IEM's. I honestly stop caring after this point. I'm perfectly happy with a $9 apple dongle DAC at 98dB SINAD. I can't tell the difference between the dongle DAC and my D10Balanced + THX 789 stack.

This is the first step to recovery. We're all rooting for ya!

I just did this test. Pretty quick sloppy listen with DT 770. Results are between -30db -40db. Interesting take away for me is that my results were same for both the music and sine wave. Another interesting take away is that when i try to hear distortion, i fail at it but if something steals my attention for a moment and then i shift my focus back to the sound, i hear it very easily which makes me surprised af because it's so obvious. Psychoacoustics...

 

[Human Bass]

If you want a beast amp to drive anything there is this

Ferrum OOR Analogue Headphone Amplifier

OOR, the only headphone amplifier with a soul OOR fully Balanced analogue headphone amplifier Proprietary discrete power amp technology Proprietary 4-pin Ferrum connector for HYPSOS Balanced 4-pin XLR and unbalanced RCA headphone outputs OOR will redefine the category of headphone amplifiers...

audio46.com

1.6 watts 300ohm, insane 8 watts 60ohm. God knows how much in 32ohm.