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Focal Diablo utopia vs kef r3 vs kef reference 1?

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preload

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Jimbob54

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Maybe. But consider this:
The new guy wrote: "hi everyone, i wonder how i can make my music sound like lexus gs mark levinson which have 17 speakers in the car....I want to achieve same or better stage at home"
And someone here responded: "Go to your classic car to listen to music."
Which, again, ain't exactly so.

You missed the denouement to the month long saga. User returned from a 2 week ban imploring someone to proxy listen to said uber speakers and advise which was best.

If he was still around I guarantee you would have received a PM from him asking which you preferred and what your kit was.

Some folks are beyond help. Or perhaps not quite on the level.
 

preload

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Which, again, ain't exactly so.

You missed the denouement to the month long saga. User returned from a 2 week ban imploring someone to proxy listen to said uber speakers and advise which was best.

If he was still around I guarantee you would have received a PM from him asking which you preferred and what your kit was.

Some folks are beyond help. Or perhaps not quite on the level.
Now I kind of want to hear his car set up. ;)
 

Galliardist

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He came back to me directly and asked me to go listen for him. I couldn’t but did ask a consultant/installer I vaguely know, and local dealers. Nobody was prepared to recommend any of the speakers he asked about and I was recommended to look at lower cost speakers- for passive speakers, descendants of the LS3/5A
such as the small Spendor classic range with a sub and optional EQ for a more neutral sound.

Surprisingly the KEF dealer thought LS50s a bad choice for desktop speakers…
 

Bren Derlin

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Maybe. But consider this:
The new guy wrote: "hi everyone, i wonder how i can make my music sound like lexus gs mark levinson which have 17 speakers in the car....I want to achieve same or better stage at home"
And someone here responded: "Go to your classic car to listen to music."

Gotta say. That was pretty sound advice.
 

YSC

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Maybe. But consider this:
The new guy wrote: "hi everyone, i wonder how i can make my music sound like lexus gs mark levinson which have 17 speakers in the car....I want to achieve same or better stage at home"
And someone here responded: "Go to your classic car to listen to music."
540BBB85-36DE-4DBA-9B7B-49C0A8C06F0C.png

FWIW, this is in PM, his room Dirac plot in his PM to me, it showed a huge and wide dip in the important 60-100hz region, where after Dirac taking away the peaks sounded much worse to him as expected. I assume as his type of music was rap which have more importance in bass slam. Trued advise him to move around or add a sub to see if it goes better before I can recommend him. Sadly he just ignored and Afterwards it’s a never ending request for me to listen the list he had to tell him feedback and story ended there.

It’s one thing asking for subjective impression to try discern about minor tonality differences between speakers, but if knowing very likely what’s making his R3 sounded worse than in vintage car, it’s just fooling around him with subjective impressions as in that fixed location it will very likely have the same issues in bass to mids, and above that I can’t see a peaking or rolling off highs would improve his enjoyment
 

Galliardist

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View attachment 237488

FWIW, this is in PM, his room Dirac plot in his PM to me, it showed a huge and wide dip in the important 60-100hz region, where after Dirac taking away the peaks sounded much worse to him as expected. I assume as his type of music was rap which have more importance in bass slam. Trued advise him to move around or add a sub to see if it goes better before I can recommend him. Sadly he just ignored and Afterwards it’s a never ending request for me to listen the list he had to tell him feedback and story ended there.

It’s one thing asking for subjective impression to try discern about minor tonality differences between speakers, but if knowing very likely what’s making his R3 sounded worse than in vintage car, it’s just fooling around him with subjective impressions as in that fixed location it will very likely have the same issues in bass to mids, and above that I can’t see a peaking or rolling off highs would improve his enjoyment
The videos probably told the truth - so the problems were in the bass as you say, given that the voice was perfectly clear and the top end pretty close to Qobuz which I used as a reference. The upper bass was better with Dirac off, the lower bass... well, it's a phone video and I don't trust that.
I'd venture that some of those peaks at least were from the desk not the room, and some isolation would have helped, even ad hoc.

Once someone has completely lost trust in their speakers, though, it's hard to retrieve the situation without replacing them.

@AdamG247 is a Desktop Audio forum worth considering to get that expertise into one place? It probably wouldn't have helped here, but at least people asking about desktop systems would have somewhere to go and better people seeing it?
 

YSC

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The videos probably told the truth - so the problems were in the bass as you say, given that the voice was perfectly clear and the top end pretty close to Qobuz which I used as a reference. The upper bass was better with Dirac off, the lower bass... well, it's a phone video and I don't trust that.
I'd venture that some of those peaks at least were from the desk not the room, and some isolation would have helped, even ad hoc.

Once someone has completely lost trust in their speakers, though, it's hard to retrieve the situation without replacing them.

@AdamG247 is a Desktop Audio forum worth considering to get that expertise into one place? It probably wouldn't have helped here, but at least people asking about desktop systems would have somewhere to go and better people seeing it?
Yea completely agree on that, but somehow I feels sad that he didn't even try to move around and see if that improved, if it did so, then buying the high end reference speaker of his choice would very likely makes him smile and enjoys music. All I don't want to end up is he wasted thousands of dollars (ok, it's not mine but a waste anyway) and ended up even more frustrated, and blame us for the bad speaker choice... I can't completely recall but IIRC I told him something in the line if he can't change speaker placement, a apple homepod would likely sound better than any high end speaker... response was ignored though.
 

Galliardist

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Yea completely agree on that, but somehow I feels sad that he didn't even try to move around and see if that improved, if it did so, then buying the high end reference speaker of his choice would very likely makes him smile and enjoys music. All I don't want to end up is he wasted thousands of dollars (ok, it's not mine but a waste anyway) and ended up even more frustrated, and blame us for the bad speaker choice... I can't completely recall but IIRC I told him something in the line if he can't change speaker placement, a apple homepod would likely sound better than any high end speaker... response was ignored though.
Of course. Moving the speakers into a better position, isolating them from the desk (no matter how poorly) would have helped.

Even better, he could have told us this was a desktop system issue in his very first post and then waited for answers before sending off for the R3s.

I can see right now that he is on other forums, and making exactly the same mistake. So someone will recommend one of the Focal models, he'll slap them on the desk and be in the same mess again. All we can hope is that subjectivism kicks in and he gets a positive result.

The first lesson in all this is, of course, that the Muso 2 is actually a damn good product for what it is designed to do, and tread carefully around anybody with one who wants to upgrade!
 

YSC

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Of course. Moving the speakers into a better position, isolating them from the desk (no matter how poorly) would have helped.

Even better, he could have told us this was a desktop system issue in his very first post and then waited for answers before sending off for the R3s.

I can see right now that he is on other forums, and making exactly the same mistake. So someone will recommend one of the Focal models, he'll slap them on the desk and be in the same mess again. All we can hope is that subjectivism kicks in and he gets a positive result.

The first lesson in all this is, of course, that the Muso 2 is actually a damn good product for what it is designed to do, and tread carefully around anybody with one who wants to upgrade!
same thought, and TBH, being in a cage sized room myself and I only have 1 reflection null at 47hz which is from the ceiling, whereas his spot is so unlucky that have a broad cancellation making it essentially bassless, worse still his music of choice was bass heavy.
 

voodooless

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He came back to me directly and asked me to go listen for him.
Oh man, I wonder how many people he stalked with this very question? I got it too. In response, I just asked if he was crazy :facepalm:
 
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YSC

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You mean the other 7 and counting threads ?
What the......

if so I think he need some help but not in audio choice....... it's ok to not be objectivist and lurk here like me and some others here, one is always welcomed to spend his time and money on something/somewhere he enjoys and stay there, but keep opening all those threads and knowning what the general suggestions will be and still opening more thread is beyond my understanding
 

HarmonicTHD

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No counting, he’s gone now ;)
I just noticed yesterday as I had him on „ignore“. Not really surprised.

I still remember one of the first posts and people recommended Genelcs and Neumanns and Subs. But he was hellbent on getting the R3 of which he got a good deal and was seeking for confirmation. I received PMs by the minute.

Sure why not recommend the R3 and get it under the circumstances (initially he said he had limited budget) and the available info of the time (small room and high end, as he called it). That he later put them on his shaking desk full of junk (I guess you remember the vid) and refused to move it and ignore all the other advice, yes this could be called crazy without too much of a stretch.
 

YSC

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I just noticed yesterday as I had him on „ignore“. Not really surprised.

I still remember one of the first posts and people recommended Genelcs and Neumanns and Subs. But he was hellbent on getting the R3 of which he got a good deal and was seeking for confirmation. I received PMs by the minute.

Sure why not recommend the R3 and get it under the circumstances (initially he said he had limited budget) and the available info of the time (small room and high end, as he called it). That he later put them on his shaking desk full of junk (I guess you remember the vid) and refused to move it and ignore all the other advice, yes this could be called crazy without too much of a stretch.
Oops I missed that the original story of confirmation for R3.... I would imagine he will do the same with the ultra high end focal or similar.... and really, that cancellation null is amazing as he chose the worse possible spot for so many side by side nulls contribute to this.
 

HarmonicTHD

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Oops I missed that the original story of confirmation for R3.... I would imagine he will do the same with the ultra high end focal or similar.... and really, that cancellation null is amazing as he chose the worse possible spot for so many side by side nulls contribute to this.
Yes he would , that’s why people didn’t recommend it without solving the other problems first. I am sure some other forums would have done so differently as the more expensive speaker is of course better.
 
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