Focal Clear Review (headphone)

[Racheski]

Hello again,

from what I read, EQs are really not all the same and can introduce unwanted artefacts like pre-ringing effects. Here`s a little article about it.

The difference between minimum-phase and linear-phase EQ on transient signals such as snare drum (adventures-in-audio.com)

No bad blood please

The Crave EQ can be tested without registration or cost. Just download and give it a try, if you want to find out for yourself, if it does make a difference or not.

Cheers
Markus

I really enjoyed that sound demo - you don't need golden ears to hear the difference. Whether or not this difference can be heard in everyday use is another story.

 

[Jimbob54]

What would you guys think, Focal Clear vs Audeze LCD2 Fazor?

I actually have two headphones, a HD800S ( which I don't want to part with ), and the LCD2F, for when I want less clinical/cold sounding headphones, and more "laid back and relax".

I had a Focal Clear in the past, but I was worried about QC quality, especially about driver failures ( Elear, Elex ), and clipping ( Clear ).

Do you think I should sell my LCD2F ( I got a really nice price on it, complete with case, new, 699e ) and get a Focal Clear ( more expensive )?

I can also get an Elear for 300e, without having to sell anything. I really liked the Elex but I also sold it back then as I was worried about driver failure, and because I don't live in the US, it would have been a hassle for the warranty.

Tl;DR:
-Keep the LCD2F with the HD800S, not worth buying something else
-Keep the LCD2F and the HD800S, and buy the Elear for 300e
-Keep the HD800S, sell the LCD2F, and buy the clear ( a bit of money loss )

Thanks!

Option 1. The Clear after EQ dont differentiate enough from an EQ HD800S to lose the LCD for.

 

[Flippant]

What would you guys think, Focal Clear vs Audeze LCD2 Fazor?

I actually have two headphones, a HD800S ( which I don't want to part with ), and the LCD2F, for when I want less clinical/cold sounding headphones, and more "laid back and relax".

I had a Focal Clear in the past, but I was worried about QC quality, especially about driver failures ( Elear, Elex ), and clipping ( Clear ).

Do you think I should sell my LCD2F ( I got a really nice price on it, complete with case, new, 699e ) and get a Focal Clear ( more expensive )?

I can also get an Elear for 300e, without having to sell anything. I really liked the Elex but I also sold it back then as I was worried about driver failure, and because I don't live in the US, it would have been a hassle for the warranty.

Tl;DR:
-Keep the LCD2F with the HD800S, not worth buying something else
-Keep the LCD2F and the HD800S, and buy the Elear for 300e
-Keep the HD800S, sell the LCD2F, and buy the clear ( a bit of money loss )

Thanks!

I'm new hear but been in the headphone community for years. I have owned the 800s, The LCD2 and currently still own the Focal Clear. These Senns vs either of the other two are like comparing apples and grapes. The Senns have remarkable sound stage but in my experience do not have enough low end to satisfy my desire which is more fun than purely accurate audiophile.

I love the Focal Clears and I also loved the LCD2 but the Audeze were just too heavy for my comfort and maybe a bit too much bass to be my daily driver. It is really a matter of personal taste as these are very different cans but they are all have terrific performance in different ways.

I regret selling the Sennheiser 800s but it could never be my daily headphone. It's too sterile, not enough bass and really brings out the flaws in all but the best recorded music. If you can tolerate the weight, (not that the Clear are light) it's up to you which sound you prefer with the Audeze clearly sounding superb but bass heavy for daily non-eq'ed listening. As far as the Eleaar, I have auditioned them and they sound OK but the Clear would be my buy if you are looking for a long term partner.They are superb and even keep my consnat desire to upgrade at bay as I don't think I'll find anything better under $2000. You know the rule iof diminishing returns in headphones.

There is just so good you can get before you can't tell the difference unless the headphone have dramatically different sound cloorations or stage like the 800s vs anything.

The Clear give me as much bass as anything I've listened except planar.

Check out my Clears with Clear Pro ear pads.

 

[Nabooh]

I'm new hear but been in the headphone community for years. I have owned the 800s, The LCD2 and currently still own the Focal Clear. These Senns vs either of the other two are like comparing apples and grapes. The Senns have remarkable sound stage but in my experience do not have enough low end to satisfy my desire which is more fun than purely accurate audiophile.

I love the Focal Clears and I also loved the LCD2 but the Audeze were just too heavy for my comfort and maybe a bit too much bass to be my daily driver. It is really a matter of personal taste as these are very different cans but they are all have terrific performance in different ways.

I regret selling the Sennheiser 800s but it could never be my daily headphone. It's too sterile, not enough bass and really brings out the flaws in all but the best recorded music. If you can tolerate the weight, (not that the Clear are light) it's up to you which sound you prefer with the Audeze clearly sounding superb but bass heavy for daily non-eq'ed listening. As far as the Eleaar, I have auditioned them and they sound OK but the Clear would be my buy if you are looking for a long term partner.They are superb and even keep my consnat desire to upgrade at bay as I don't think I'll find anything better under $2000. You know the rule iof diminishing returns in headphones.

There is just so good you can get before you can't tell the difference unless the headphone have dramatically different sound cloorations or stage like the 800s vs anything.

The Clear give me as much bass as anything I've listened except planar.

Check out my Clears with Clear Pro ear pads.

Thanks, I finally decided to get a pair of Clear. I will decide later if I sell another pair of headphones.

The focal Clear might be closer in sound signature to the LCD2, so I might keep the hd800s and sell the LCD2...

 

[Flippant]

That is a great idea "imho". That is absolutely what I would do. I love the Clears. If I had extra cash I would be scared to upgrade to the MG as they sound perfect to me. How great is great? Some feel the Clear is too bassy because it is not totally flat, neutral, audiophile- but I just can't tell you how much I enjoy them. I loved hearing the spatial sounds of the Senns - a horn out of the front of the left ear and a drum come out of the back of the right, there is nothing like it from what I understand; but overall the Clears are my favs.

I went to a a few audio stores and auditioned multiple headphones and A/B' ed the Clears for hours.
One buying decision I never regretted to this day.
Enjoy,

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Thanks, I finally decided to get a pair of Clear.

You may want to consider the Clear Pro since it comes with a replacement ear pad.

If USA based, one possible source is Dale Pro Audio (Tim Fannigan, sales rep). No sales tax, and great price.

 

[xevman]

Since the clear and elex have the same driver short comings at loud listening volumes, how come the elex gets a recommendation and the clear doesn’t? I know there is a price gap between them but Clears are now going for Elex prices in my region due to the release of the Mg

 

[imagidominc]

Since the clear and elex have the same driver short comings at loud listening volumes, how come the elex gets a recommendation and the clear doesn’t? I know there is a price gap between them but Clears are now going for Elex prices in my region due to the release of the Mg

I think if the Clear is going for the same price as the Elex it is the better choice. At original price it probably can't get a recommendation tho.

 

[seedragon]

Bottoming out at extremely high levels or highly elevated bass is not something to hold against them. You can crank a lot of headphones up to beyond listening levels and make them mechanically malfunction. I'd like to know some of the tracks people are using to bottom them out because I've never been able to get my 2 Focals to.
Like I said there's a reason this and the extremely similar but much cheaper Elex are some of the most beloved headphones.

Focal Clear Pro here and I also cannot get these things to "bottom out" before they reach levels I can't stand. One of the tracks that I use to test deep bass is Okay by Alison Wonderland. The sustained bass note at 2:15 is deep and very strong and the Clear just keeps playing along. I even added +1.5 dB with an LS filter at 50hz. No problem.

I would also like to know what tracks people are using to clip their Clears! I consider myself a semi bass-head, but maybe I'm missing out on some good tunes!

 

[Robbo99999]

Focal Clear Pro here and I also cannot get these things to "bottom out" before they reach levels I can't stand. One of the tracks that I use to test deep bass is Okay by Alison Wonderland. The sustained bass note at 2:15 is deep and very strong and the Clear just keeps playing along. I even added +1.5 dB with an LS filter at 50hz. No problem.

I would also like to know what tracks people are using to clip their Clears! I consider myself a semi bass-head, but maybe I'm missing out on some good tunes!

This is what Amir was using re tracks with deep bass that created clipping:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ocal-clear-review-headphone.18585/post-608501

 

[esm]

I would also like to know what tracks people are using to clip their Clears! I consider myself a semi bass-head, but maybe I'm missing out on some good tunes!

Amir's test track has already been quoted (also, be sure to check out that Burak Malçok track he uses as a stress test, that whole album is great), but I'll also mention that highly-dynamic (and low-freq-heavy) movie soundtracks are particularly bad.

The isolated score track from the Oblivion blu-ray has a few good examples of this; the first time I noticed this problem was during the climactic moment of the film in the isolated score, where you get elevated gain across the spectrum (but particularly lower frequencies), and it scared the hell out of me. Since the dynamic range for movie scores (specifically the audio track on the blu-ray, not the mass-market soundtracks that end up on CD) tends to be much broader, it's really easy to bump into this problem without having the volume turned up to uncomfortable levels.

For a typically-mastered mass-market album, I'd agree, it's pretty hard to hit this; I listen to a ton of electronic music and because the dynamic range of most of it isn't particularly broad, I don't tend to have the gain high enough to cause problems. But even with typical recordings, I've found that well-mastered classical can still have a tendency to bump into it, because I listen at louder volumes.

tl;dr high-dynamic-range mastering tends to make you bump the gain up a bit (because you want to hear that subtle quiet stuff) and then your Clears try to damage your hearing when the crescendo hits.

 

[Tachyon88]

@seedragon Try 5 or 8 db at that frequency with appropriate negative pre-amp.

 

[sharock]

"B-Stock" Focal Clear Pro non-MG for £984 (not sure what's wrong with it) or brand new Clear non-MG for £1099?

I understand the Pro has 2 sets of pads which is a good thing?

 

[Daaadou]

This is what Amir was using re tracks with deep bass that created clipping:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ocal-clear-review-headphone.18585/post-608501

Just tried again with an NX4, they are not clipping, I'm at 3/4 of the max power, I cannot bear higher volume

 

[Robbo99999]

Just tried again with an NX4, they are not clipping, I'm at 3/4 of the max power, I cannot bear higher volume

Amir does test at very loud levels, but that's useful for working out the limits & capabilities of the headphone. I recently worked out what my max listening levels are for 0dBFS (so full digital signal) which would represent peaks in the music, and depending on which headphone I determined it with and depending on a level of inaccuracy in my experiment, then the loudest levels for me are 80-86dB, that's not an average level when listening to music, those are the peaks....I worked it out at the following post: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...as-been-measured-by-oratory.22992/post-767745
So for me I've determined that the 94dB test is the only applicable test for my usage, and even that is extreme for the mids & treble, but the 94dB test he does for distortion would cover off the 5-9dB bass boost I give my various headphones......the 104dB and 114dB test he does wouldn't carry any meaning for me in my usage scenarios based on how loud I listen.

 

[Daaadou]

They clipped, I wanted to find out what this clipping looked like.
I put the headset on the table and pushed it all the way, it started clipping at around 90% of the NX4 max power.
Since I usually listened at 40% or at 50-60% when I am listening super loud in my referential, I consider this is OK.
Still, bad design from Focal for a high end product.

 

[Robbo99999]

They clipped, I wanted to find out what this clipping looked like.
I put the headset on the table and pushed it all the way, it started clipping at around 90% of the NX4 max power.
Since I usually listened at 40% or at 50-60% when I am listening super loud in my referential, I consider this is OK.
Still, bad design from Focal for a high end product.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Daaadou]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it.

Still, now I understand how it could be a problem for tracks with wide dynamic range.
You're willing to have lots of bass while watching a movie for example so you eq them up. Since the dynamic range is super wide, you can listen at high volume because the treble/voices are totally bearable and not fatiguing but when there is an explosion, they clip instead of giving you a huge BOOOM. Hige BOOOM you tried to achieve by eqing them up in the bass...
I have not encountered that, I do not eq them to pump up the bass while watching movie, but I totally get Amir point now.
It is an issue and it could prohibit the proper use of these headphones for some people.

 

[Robbo99999]

Still, now I understand how it could be a problem for tracks with wide dynamic range.
You're willing to have lots of bass while watching a movie for example so you eq them up. Since the dynamic range is super wide, you can listen at high volume because the treble/voices are totally bearable and not fatiguing but when there is an explosion, they clip instead of giving you a huge BOOOM. Hige BOOOM you tried to achieve by eqing them up in the bass...
I have not encountered that, I do not eq them to pump up the bass while watching movie, but I totally get Amir point now.
It is an issue and it could prohibit the proper use of these headphones for some people.

Yes, it would depend on the dynamic range of the content you listen to, how much you EQ up the bass, and generally how loud you like to listen. Certainly in my case with my headphones I don't need to take dynamic range into consideration because my calculations of how loud I listen to are based on 0dBFS, so dynamic range is already accounted for......so I know that I only listen at 80-86dB for max levels, not average levels, then a max of 5-9dB bass boost depending on headphone, which gives 85-95dB max level worst case in the bass depending on headphone & accuracy of my experiments. So I know for a fact that only the 94dB measurement for distortion is the one that has any applicability to me and that one is some overkill still, I can forget about the 104dB and 114dB levels that Amir tests at. It comes down to usage cases, but I struggle to stretch to the relevance of the 114dB test for anyone and most definitely when it comes to the mids & treble.

EDIT: struck out text because forgot that bass boost already taken into account during my experiments/calculations, so literally just 80-86dB for max levels including bass boost.

 

[roskodan]

Think I got to some really agreeable upper mids / treble Clear PEQ filters, for my picky ears, as I wasn't convinced by any of the popular ones found online. Arguably due to my overly worn-in pads.

Filter 3 lowers the fatidic Clear shoutiness substantially, while Filter 4 adds a nice pinch of energy up top.

Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1100 Hz Gain -4.0 dB Q 2.0
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 4500 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 2.0

Up until now I've been using just the, ASR like, 2x Low Shelf filter bass boost.

Filter 1: ON LS Fc 40 Hz Gain 6.0 dB Q 1.0
Filter 2: ON LS Fc 75 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 1.0

Alternatively the same bass boost can also be achieved with just one Peak filter for when 2 Low Shelf filters are not an option (i.e. for RME onboard PEQ software)

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 9.0 dB Q 0.5

I found a pre gain of -6 dB to be enough to avoid software clipping.

Spoiler: EQ APO PEACE screenshot