Focal Clear Review (headphone)

[pwjazz]

Essentially it's a model of a flat speaker in the Harman Listening Room measured at the eardrum in a "average mannequinn", combined with a little consumer preference on the bass

Yes it is (and I did mention it briefly), but speakers in a room is used as a starting point for preference. I think this makes a ton of sense, since that's kind of what most of us are used to. But, because of the circle of confusion, this can't really be called "accuracy" or "fidelity", since we can't know what the recording artists' and engineers' speakers and rooms sounded like.

DAC and amp fidelity with respect to source signal is a more directly measurable quantity, and mostly I was just pointing out that it's a mistake to put the Harman target on the same level as those kinds of measurements.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/...andardized, calibrated monitoring environment.

 

[Daaadou]

Yes it is (and I did mention it briefly), but speakers in a room is used as a starting point for preference. I think this makes a ton of sense, since that's kind of what most of us are used to. But, because of the circle of confusion, this can't really be called "accuracy" or "fidelity", since we can't know what the recording artists' and engineers' speakers and rooms sounded like.

DAC and amp fidelity with respect to source signal is a more directly measurable quantity, and mostly I was just pointing out that it's a mistake to put the Harman target on the same level as those kinds of measurements.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html?m=1#:~:text=Audio's “Circle of Confusion” is,a standardized, calibrated monitoring environment.

One thing about all that talk concerning the Clear clipping at high volume when they are EQed.

As far as I'm concerned, I cannot listen to HPs at these SPLs. I can with my loudspeakers but definitely not with the HPs. It does that feeling in the ears that you are doing something wrong... While I totally do not have the same feeling with the loudspeakers.
So while I was considering to try to make them clip to check the issue and reach their limits, I reconsidered and just realized that it is beyond any situation I will put them through. I do not want to get hearing impaired so...
Because actually, I guess I would have to put the HPs away and pump up the volume to make them clip because it is unbearable at this SPL to keep them on my head. It litteraly makes no sense for the use I intend to do out of them.

Thus, I totally dig the review Amir did and I understand why it is important to have standards, you put the devices through tests and you can bench them all afterwards, that's it. Doesn't have to mean these devices ain't no good, just check for yourself, figures are here for you to help making a decision, not to be a dealbreaker in any sense if these fit your need.
Plus, as it has been said, their FR is not bad at all out of the box.

So I'll never know if they clip, I have used the EQ and listened to the killer tracks at the maximum volume I could bear, nothing happened, music was properly reproduced. I do not even EQ them in the bass anymore, I prefer their native FR.

There is only thing that I dislike about them, they are not as good as my very old 4-ways loudspeakers Kinda disappointing when you get something new and it doesn't take you beyond what you already have... but these are for the night to spare my wife the trouble and let me enjoy decently my music and my movies
I am already looking at some portable HP amplifier to get them with me on the go when I am touring for my job all over the countryside.

 

[pwjazz]

Thus, I totally dig the review Amir did and I understand why it is important to have standards, you put the devices through tests and you can bench them all afterwards, that's it

Yeah, I can think of no better way to approach standardized headphone frequency response testing than using the Harman Target as a baseline.

 

[HDavidson]

Fichier de correction .wav pour le convolver. Oratoire1990.
FOCALClear-44k - appliquer un préampli -4.9db
FocaClear-bass-44k - appliquer le préampli -6.5db

https://files.dp.ua/ru/U48KwGD7R6

 

[amirm]

I have so far disagreed with your subjective conclusions on most reviews of headphones I tried myself. Headphones that you recommended I hate and the Clear that you don't recommend I love very much. I also use very different EQ for my Clear than the one you use (though it’s a lot subtler than yours). So what do you make of this? Could it be that I just don't find the Herman curve appealing? Could such a thing exist?

You said you don't put any value on subjective reviews of others. Not sure why you now ask me to do the opposite with you and try to explain what you are saying. Also, I have only reviewed a handful of headphones so your judgement across them makes no sense.

Those general points aside, I tested the Clear without EQ and I said that it sounded reasonable. And that with EQ it sounded much better. Problem was, with EQ it created scary crackling sounds. No headphone I ever recommend can do that. It is like a sports car stalling as you floor it to merge into the freeway. It doesn't matter how well it handles or accelerates. It cannot stall. You are going to tell me that yours don't but I can't go by your experience, I have to go by mine. If the unit did not crackle, then it would have gotten my recommendation with EQ. It is very simple really.

As to you not finding "Harman curve" appealing as I explained, there is no such thing. Harman curve is a filtered curve for their specific fixture which no one in the wild currently has. An attempt to hug the cure is wrong. I only use it in my reviews as a guide, not a bible and do not like approaches that generate tons of filters to match it.

It is also entirely possible that you don't have the appreciation for good sound that I have. Really. I paid for all the bass notes in my music, so I want to hear them all. There is no way you could say this headphone reproduces the sub bass notes below 50 Hz correctly. They are so faint as to almost be inaudible. Maybe you don't listen to such music in which case your experience is not comprehensive enough to matter. I push audio products to find their weaknesses. You may not at all.

Edit: And by the way, Tyll Hertsens from Innerfidelity tested hundreds of headphones with as much or even more scientific rigor and expertise than you. And he reached very different conclusions on the Focal Clear. What do you say to that? Is your method and opinion the only acceptable one?

Once more there is confusion about these reviews. Measurements are NOT science. They are just data. And there is nothing complicated about them. You put on the headphones, measure and publish. Fastest of all the products I test and easiest by far.

What is "science" is interpreting the data. There, Tyll had purchased the Head Acoustics HATS for which we don't have a preference curve -- harman or otherwise. I specifically passed on B&K 5128 HATS because despite its higher precision, it too had no Harman preference curve and hence the benefits of 5+ years of research into what sounds good.

Maybe that is the reason that Tyll's review is almost completely devoid of the data he got in his measurements: https://www.stereophile.com/content/focal-clear-over-ear-open-headphones-page-2

Bass can be more texturally resolving? What "science" or measurement instructed that?

Effortless liquidity? What science or measurement talks about that?

These are all nonsense subjectivist terms that may have endeared him to wider headphone user audiences but are precisely the type of subjective review remarks you need to ignore.

Earlier he says more of the same:

What is a "lovely warm bass?" What else is bass if not warm? My measurements and subjective testing clearly shows it lacks low bass response and it is with EQ that it becomes warm and lovely. Not without.

He goes on:

The heck is scientific about that statement? What measurement backed that? If you are saying measurements didn't, and he didn't perform a controlled listening test, then that statement is not based on science whatsoever.

So please don't throw stuff like this at me. I read his review prior to doing mine. I got absolutely nothing out of it. Ditto for half a dozen other reviews I read and watched. Some of those did point out the "clipping" issue that I found by the way which is more than what Tyll said.

Mind you, I find Tyll very personable and he did a lot to bring measurements into headphone realm. But he has moved on and so has science. My approach is very different than his. If it is too bothersome to you, don't read them. If you are going to read them then don't be dismissive. I am not here to make owners of products feel better about their purchases. I am here to state what I find -- objectively and subjectively. And follow the science as best as possible with added common sense. If you value science, then you best value what we have started to do here.

 

[Fluffy]

It is also entirely possible that you don't have the appreciation for good sound that I have. Really. I paid for all the bass notes in my music, so I want to hear them all. There is no way you could say this headphone reproduces the sub bass notes below 50 Hz correctly. They are so faint as to almost be inaudible. Maybe you don't listen to such music in which case your experience is not comprehensive enough to matter. I push audio products to find their weaknesses. You may not at all.

This kind of talking is the exact reason why I stopped reading reviews and forums, including this one. No matter how subjective or objective a reviewer might be, they always have some perception of what sound and music should be and how things should sound – and anyone who disagrees with their perception is flawed in some way.

I indeed listen to music very differently from you or most people here. I listen to different genres with different mastering technics and different spectral contents. Most people here will undoubtedly say that I listen to music "wrong". For example, sub 30-hz frequencies are not important to me. So the massive bass boost you EQ in your review, the one that causes those crackles you hear, is unnecessary for me, and thus I don't suffer from the crackling problem. What is important is the entire rest of the spectrum and other sonic qualities, that altogether are much more meaningful than whether there is a little bit more sub bass.

Now, you are probably going to say that if I don't need sub 30 hz frequencies in my music, then I don't matter or I'm listening wrong or I don't truly know how music sounds like with sub 30 hz frequencies, or something. And that's why I see no reason listening to you. Your entire scientific method isn't really worth it if in the end of the day you go around like any subjective youtube reviewer that you hate, and tell people that their taste is inferior to yours.

And I never really relied on your recommendations, that I find biased or arbitrary most of the time. I mostly looked at data and judge things for myself.

 

[Thomas_A]

This kind of talking is the exact reason why I stopped reading reviews and forums, including this one. No matter how subjective or objective a reviewer might be, they always have some perception of what sound and music should be and how things should sound – and anyone who disagrees with their perception is flawed in some way.

I indeed listen to music very differently from you or most people here. I listen to different genres with different mastering technics and different spectral contents. Most people here will undoubtedly say that I listen to music "wrong". For example, sub 30-hz frequencies are not important to me. So the massive bass boost you EQ in your review, the one that causes those crackles you hear, is unnecessary for me, and thus I don't suffer from the crackling problem. What is important is the entire rest of the spectrum and other sonic qualities, that altogether are much more meaningful than whether there is a little bit more sub bass.

Now, you are probably going to say that if I don't need sub 30 hz frequencies in my music, then I don't matter or I'm listening wrong or I don't truly know how music sounds like with sub 30 hz frequencies, or something. And that's why I see no reason listening to you. Your entire scientific method isn't really worth it if in the end of the day you go around like any subjective youtube reviewer that you hate, and tell people that their taste is inferior to yours.

And I never really relied on your recommendations, that I find biased or arbitrary most of the time. I mostly looked at data and judge things for myself.

I listen to some music with 25 Hz content and I use headphones and speakers that reproduce down to 20 Hz. So while you don't need that, there are others that do. For those of us that appreciate full range, the reviews and especially measurements are very valuable.

 

[Fluffy]

I listen to some music with 25 Hz content and I use headphones and speakers that reproduce down to 20 Hz. So while you don't need that, there are others that do. For those of us that appreciate full range, the reviews and especially measurements are very valuable.

You missed my point by a mile

 

[Thomas_A]

You missed my point by a mile

Well you don't need to read the reviews or listen to anyone.

 

[Kai P]

Just registered to add a "data point" to the issue. I recently got a Focal Clear Professional on a Topping L30 / Apogee Groove (so probably > 2V, hard to compare).

I've tried both tracks with 3db shelf on 40hz and 5db shelf on 75hz (more than I usually do) and above my usual listening levels, no cracking. Then I raised volume even more and was holding the headphone 2-3cm from my ears (unbearably loud otherwise) still no cracking.

I'm coming from an EQd Sennheiser 660s and find the Clear quite similar tonally. They have pretty much the same great vocals but better bass and clarity, instruments are much easier to seperate without being annoyingly detailed. The Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro I also have, have a larger soundstage and sound more (sometimes too much) detailed, but vocals sound distant and lack "warmth"/"body".

This is all EQd, usually using Oratory1990 Harman presets, but I enjoy the Clear even a little more with just a bass boost and maybe a -2db peak at 1100-1300 (not sure where exactly yet). Disclaimer: I'm hearing impaired starting at around 4k on one ear, so can't say that much about treble.

 

[Tachyon88]

Well you don't need to read the reviews or listen to anyone.

For real, seems redundant complaints for not recommending something he likes.

 

[ezra_s]

Perhaps we should just focus on getting the most accurate sound to how the music was originally played in each case... and then adjust to our taste according to preference.

There is a clear case, the scientific method, which still can be improved, perfected.. and then there's our taste which can get close to that reference, or far away.

I find both parts enriching, let's not fight over it.

 

[LTig]

There is zero (!) 'sub bass' in that track. No LFE effects either. The bassline consists of a boring low frequency sine, just a bit too loud in the mix. It does not go deeper than the lowest string on a bass guitar (44 Hz). The samples that I posted play two octaves lower. THAT is sub bass.

Bass can sound fat and deep although it isn't. Check your music with a spectral analyzer and you won't be fooled again.

As always correct, see the spectrogram:

 

[amirm]

This kind of talking is the exact reason why I stopped reading reviews and forums, including this one. No matter how subjective or objective a reviewer might be, they always have some perception of what sound and music should be and how things should sound – and anyone who disagrees with their perception is flawed in some way.

Nope. I showed you clear measurements that back what I saw. And I post the music that demonstrates the problem.

The issue here is that you own and like this headphone so rather not read any criticism about it. It is typical fanboism that I so detest. We are not here to cater to that. Learn to accept the data like the owners do who send in this gear to learn what makes their devices tick. Don't just post to complain that your favorite audio gear is not looking good objectively or subjectively. We have no interest in your personal opinion of the review unless you can share specific research and data that is not in the review. You have done none of that and keep complaining, shopping for which reviewer agreed with you, etc. That is not what we are about.

You are raising the noise level of these review threads with no contributions whatsoever. Stay out of the review threads please.

 

[ezra_s]

If it is this track:

https://soundcloud.com/tkrism%2Fjellyfish
It creates nasty sequence of driver bottoming out! This is with RME ADI-2 Pro DAC headphone out in high gain and set to -17 dB. Happens around 3:48 or so. While I was getting single pulses of driver, with this track it repeats to the tune of 2 to 4 per second. I had to immediately stop it! And this is with NO EQ. RME spectrum analyzer shows a peak at 25 Hz well above the rest of the spectrum!

Same track at even higher elevated playback has no effect on Sennheiser HD650. Or HEDD headphone I have under test right now.

For those of you who have Clear headphones, give the above a try and report back.

Now I'm trying this with all my headphones

edit, but of course not at -17dBr in the RME ADI-2 DAC with high gain as I don't want to make them explode.

edit: isn't high gain for specially for difficult headphones to drive? 55 OHM does not sound particularily difficult. I listen to my beyerndynamic 600ohm at -30dbr low gain for confortable extended listening.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

This back and forth conversation is informative, enlightening, and even entertaining. But you are not making it easy for me — between those who highly rate their Clear phones, and those who provide measurements and QC anecdotes ("evidences") against the Clear.

My brand new Focal Clear Pro headphones arrived the day after this thread started. On the one hand, they are at a great price ($1,069 via Tim Finnegan at Dale Pro Audio); but the flip-side is that they have a no-return policy on headphones if I decide I don't want to keep them. So I haven't opened the box yet...

I think my listening style lines up well with the strengths of the Clear Pro: classic rock, folk / indie rock, roots / world beat, and jazz; generally at low to moderate volume. I'm not worried too much about bass below 45Hz (i.e., below natural instruments), but the parts of the listening curve that won't lend themselves well to EQ gives me pause (both the bass clipping risk, and the treble peak/dip). My other headphones are HD600 (10 years-old) and I am also testing out a pair of HIFIMAN HE6SEv2 at $699+tax from Adorama.

Do I open the box and try them out for myself? Or should I return the box unopened with "shipment refused" based on the measurements, and then seek out a different dynamic headphone to upgrade my HD600 ?!? I know the box cutter decision is ultimately in my hand, but I'd welcome any insights (or pot-shots) from the seasoned pros.

 

[Robbo99999]

This back and forth conversation is informative, enlightening, and even entertaining. But you are not making it easy for me — between those who highly rate their Clear phones, and those who provide measurements and QC anecdotes ("evidences") against the Clear.

My brand new Focal Clear Pro headphones arrived the day after this thread started. On the one hand, they are at a great price ($1,069 via Tim Finnegan at Dale Pro Audio); but the flip-side is that they have a no-return policy on headphones if I decide I don't want to keep them. So I haven't opened the box yet...

I think my listening style lines up well with the strengths of the Clear Pro: classic rock, folk / indie rock, roots / world beat, and jazz; generally at low to moderate volume. I'm not worried too much about bass below 45Hz (i.e., below natural instruments), but the parts of the listening curve that won't lend themselves well to EQ gives me pause (both the bass clipping risk, and the treble peak/dip). My other headphones are HD600 (10 years-old) and I am also testing out a pair of HIFIMAN HE6SEv2 at $699+tax from Adorama.

Do I open the box and try them out for myself? Or should I return the box unopened with "shipment refused" based on the measurements, and then seek out a different dynamic headphone to upgrade my HD600 ?!? I know the box cutter decision is ultimately in my hand, but I'd welcome any insights (or pot-shots) from the seasoned pros.

Considering you don't listen loudly and are not gonna be boosting up the bass, then I guess you don't need to worry about the "clipping" issue with the drivers. I suppose the frequency response in the treble is not ideal, and to be honest given the type of music you listen to I'm not sure why you want to try to upgrade from the HD600. In my opinion, the only reason to upgrade from the HD600 (which I own) is if you want a better/wider more realistic soundstage......if you're happy with the soundstage I think you should stay with the HD600, because I think they're beautiful headphones in all ways except deep bass and soundstage. If soundstage is a big thing for you then explore some headphones with good soundstage. I'm not sure how Focal Clear are on soundstage. On a personal level AKG K702 is my best headphone so far for soundstage, but it does need to be EQ'd. But really, if you know you're happy with the soundstage of the HD600 then just stick with that headphone, especially as you're not particularly bothered by wanting deep/clear bass.

 

[Savi]

This back and forth conversation is informative, enlightening, and even entertaining. But you are not making it easy for me — between those who highly rate their Clear phones, and those who provide measurements and QC anecdotes ("evidences") against the Clear.

Hi,

If it could help you, I have the focal clear and I have compared it with the hd650. I think the problem is that some people simplify the reviews conclusions and measurements in "good or bad". Take it as it is: it gives you an exhaustive and objective evaluation of the pros and the cons (not mixed with BS poetry) of a product which can help you deciding to buy it or not given your expectations (btw thanks Amir for the work). In the past, I liked both the hd650 and the clear pro regarding sound quality. I kept the clear only because I found (subjectively) the build quality better, found it very confortable (and maybe because I like to support french industries).

For information, with my listening level and my music (no EQ in the bass and with dx3pro) I have never encountered clipping but I think that given the price with this unknown before buying, I would not have bought it.

After one year, the only downside (but I knew it) is that is quiet annoying for my girlfriend when she is next to me. I never try a closed back headphone that I like but maybe I am going to search for it for the night sessions. Small digression: Amir do you think all open back headphones are equal on this point ? Maybe it will help people to measure outside sound level (at 50cm ?) for a given listening level.

 

[Fluffy]

Nope. I showed you clear measurements that back what I saw. And I post the music that demonstrates the problem.

The issue here is that you own and like this headphone so rather not read any criticism about it. It is typical fanboism that I so detest. We are not here to cater to that. Learn to accept the data like the owners do who send in this gear to learn what makes their devices tick. Don't just post to complain that your favorite audio gear is not looking good objectively or subjectively. We have no interest in your personal opinion of the review unless you can share specific research and data that is not in the review. You have done none of that and keep complaining, shopping for which reviewer agreed with you, etc. That is not what we are about.

You are raising the noise level of these review threads with no contributions whatsoever. Stay out of the review threads please.

You just don't get what I'm saying. I have absolutely no problem with the data. The data is correct and there is no point disagreeing with it. I'm not fanboying or shopping for agreement… Jesus, where are you getting this from??

What I'm saying is there is not one "correct" response curve that everything should abide by. Your measurements are good and match other measurements I've seen, that also show these headphones as not complying with the Herman curve in various ways. And my point is, that this is not a problem at all. The deviations are not only non-problematic, they are in fact probably why I do appreciate the sound of these cans. I like them not despite of these supposed-flaws, but because if its Idiosyncrasies. The main issue is not how clear the measurements are, but what you deduce from them.

You just can't accept the fact that things can sound good to some people while not adhering to a target response that measures average preference. Or that some people can enjoy different sound than you. And that goes to the rest of the audiophile community at large, whether objective or subjective.

I will gladly stop commenting and reading the reviews here. This site had truly sucked away any enjoyment I had in music with all this relentless obsession with being "right" and "scientific". Really, you people forgot that this whole hobby starts and ends with enjoying music. Since I stopped reading here, I was actually able to enjoy my music collection again, and not worry about whether some piece of gear I have is as objectively accurate as it could physically be. In the future I would honestly recommend anyone who thinks about getting into the audiophile hobby to go do something else. This is not worth anybody's time.

 

[thewas]

I will gladly stop commenting and reading the reviews here. This site had truly sucked away any enjoyment I had in music with all this relentless obsession with being "right" and "scientific". Really, you people forgot that this whole hobby starts and ends with enjoying music. Since I stopped reading here, I was actually able to enjoy my music collection again, and not worry about whether some piece of gear I have is as objectively accurate as it could physically be.

Personally I don't see it like this, I can at the same time both enjoy the measurements and site here although I also don't fully agree to some things like some subjective ratings or the Harman targets either as well enjoy listening to a Focal Clear which I would still buy if I would listen more often to music via headphones, for me one doesn't necessarily negate the other.