Floor standing loudspeakers for 500 sq ft room

[EdW]

I'm simply fascinated by Fyne Audio, a Scottish company, and their flagship speakers are in/around your budget, I'm curious if you've heard them or even heard of them? There is no where near me in the USA selling these, so I haven't heard them, and while I give WhatHiFi very little credibility, they quickly put most of the Fyne speakers on their top picks list, which has peaked my interest. Hoping ASR reviews them some day soon.

https://www.fyneaudio.com/

I’ve never heard them but I’ve heard of them! There are some dealers relatively near me and I might just look them up. Thanks

 

[TonioRoffo]

Since you’re coming from B&W I wou think the 802d3 would sound the most natural to you. In a room that large with your budget and list of passive speakers, personally I would get a pair of blades in there.

Hear hear! I went from being an B&W 800 lover (D2, D3) to KEF reference, after figuring out the B&W house sound isn't for me (attended a lot of symphonic orchestra's which weren't anything near as treble rich and sparkly as the same music on my speakers)

KEF is great.

 

[A Surfer]

While not of the pedigree money being mentioned in this thread (colour me envious) I have owned and enjoyed a few sets of KEF speakers the last being the very modest R300 supported by two little REL T Zero subs. I have smaller rooms so plenty of sound pressure for me. I also own the KEF Space One Wireless headphone and in general seem to gel very well with the KEF sound. I wish you success finding your perfect system. Do also consider having the room really well measured and think about room treatment if needed. I suspect that if there are room issues of any magnitude one could throw copious amounts of money into speakers and amps and never get the sound where they want it to be.

 

[EdW]

While not of the pedigree money being mentioned in this thread (colour me envious) I have owned and enjoyed a few sets of KEF speakers the last being the very modest R300 supported by two little REL T Zero subs. I have smaller rooms so plenty of sound pressure for me. I also own the KEF Space One Wireless headphone and in general seem to gel very well with the KEF sound. I wish you success finding your perfect system. Do also consider having the room really well measured and think about room treatment if needed. I suspect that if there are room issues of any magnitude one could throw copious amounts of money into speakers and amps and never get the sound where they want it to be.

You make a very important point about discovering the room acoustics. Before I throw any money at new speakers I’m going to invest in a UMIK-1 microphone and run REW to understand what’s really happening. I might also try some gentle attenuation of the major room resonances if I can get my head round running bruteFIR on the raspberry pi 4 server. Certainly my existing B&W 803 is pretty reasonable, even if nearly 20 years old. But it makes absolute sense to approach this methodically if I’m to get the best results.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

A bit obsessed by multiple subs. Any recommendation , coming from me, will mention, multi-subs, I apologize for the ad nauseum repetition:
My take:
Budget is up to $25,000?
I'd opt for the Revel F328Be (MSRP: $16,000.00/pair)
4 Rythmik F15HP Direct Servo subwoofer (MSRP: $5200.00 for 4) (Overkill, I know but...)
Some good DSP/Crossover/DAC/Preamp from $500 to $2000 to crossover the Revel to 75 Hz and leave the rest to the 4 subs. People in here will give you all kind of great choices with EQ, delay, perhaps Room Correction, etc.
Time to integrate these

And be in Heaven.

 

[A Surfer]

You make a very important point about discovering the room acoustics. Before I throw any money at new speakers I’m going to invest in a UMIK-1 microphone and run REW to understand what’s really happening. I might also try some gentle attenuation of the major room resonances if I can get my head round running bruteFIR on the raspberry pi 4 server. Certainly my existing B&W 803 is pretty reasonable, even if nearly 20 years old. But it makes absolute sense to approach this methodically if I’m to get the best results.

Not that I have a room worth doing so in, plus it is temporary, but if I was in a permanent room, based on quite a bit of research but no first hand experience to this point, I would start with the room.

My thinking is make the room as acoustically transparent as is viable, then when the audio gear is brought into play, any room correction efforts done with software should be quite minimal and allow the system to be as naturally enjoyed as possible. I can only imagine how moving well reproduced pipe organ music in a well treated large room would be. Look forward to you taking some pictures and sharing them if you have a mind to do so. Enjoy the journey of putting together your best system! I would bet that your classic B&W's sound quite lovely. I sometimes think that in trying to update lines and "keep up with the Joneses" that speaker companies may actually over engineer things and move past perfectly wonderful sounding speakers simply to have a new sound.

 

[EdW]

Hear hear! I went from being an B&W 800 lover (D2, D3) to KEF reference, after figuring out the B&W house sound isn't for me (attended a lot of symphonic orchestra's which weren't anything near as treble rich and sparkly as the same music on my speakers)

KEF is great.

Yes I had a demo of the 802D3 and it did seem a like over bright compared to my present 803 from 20 years ago. I thought it might just be my expectations but, I, like you, have attended quite a few classical music concerts pre Covid and I had my suspicions that B&W might have been heading in the wrong direction with the D3 series. A few days ago I heard the KEF blade (the big one) vs the 802D3 vs the KEF Reference 5. Clear winner for me was the blade. I was a little surprised that the Reference 5 seemed a little dull. I’d like to check it again perhaps at different dealer to make sure I gave it a fair hearing. The blade is a bit of a behemoth, with a price to match, so if I went the blade route I’d try to get a demo of the smaller blade 2

 

[TonioRoffo]

Yes I had a demo of the 802D3 and it did seem a like over bright compared to my present 803 from 20 years ago. I thought it might just be my expectations but, I, like you, have attended quite a few classical music concerts pre Covid and I had my suspicions that B&W might have been heading in the wrong direction with the D3 series. A few days ago I heard the KEF blade (the big one) vs the 802D3 vs the KEF Reference 5. Clear winner for me was the blade. I was a little surprised that the Reference 5 seemed a little dull. I’d like to check it again perhaps at different dealer to make sure I gave it a fair hearing. The blade is a bit of a behemoth, with a price to match, so if I went the blade route I’d try to get a demo of the smaller blade 2

Exactly the same opinion. I owned 802D2's for a long time but had to downgrade in size because I moved to a smaller house. I thought 805D3 would be the ticket, excellent reviews, did a short listening test, yeah, was ok, so I did it. 6 months later I was very unhappy with them (just like you, after attending classic music concerts) and understanding this is not what I wanted (anymore?)

As for blades... I don't dare listen to them.

Did half a day comparison between 803D3 & KEF Ref 3 and went with the Ref 3. Works perfectly for me.

 

[A Surfer]

Ed, is it worth thinking about not even moving past your current speakers for now, putting some budget into the room measurement/treatment and then re-assessing if what you have now actually could in a treated room provide the satisfaction that you are looking for? For people not in a permanent room that the speaker becomes their primary focus, that I get, but if somebody is in their permanent room I find it odd that very few people are willing to spend money on the room itself.

We will obsess over the cabinet design and crossover network, but the biggest elephant in the room is the room itself. I think it fair to say that the room is the most influential driver enclosure. I also think about the lesson that a well done outdoor amphitheater taught us, that even without amplification or speakers a persons voice could be heard loud and clear throughout. I know our rooms aren't capable of such wonders, but it really does provide a stark and vivid example of just how important the actual listening space really is.

 

[EdW]

Exactly the same opinion. I owned 802D2's for a long time but had to downgrade in size because I moved to a smaller house. I thought 805D3 would be the ticket, excellent reviews, did a short listening test, yeah, was ok, so I did it. 6 months later I was very unhappy with them (just like you, after attending classic music concerts) and understanding this is not what I wanted (anymore?)

As for blades... I don't dare listen to them.

Did half a day comparison between 803D3 & KEF Ref 3 and went with the Ref 3. Works perfectly for me.

Great that the Ref 3 is perfect for you. The thing about the blade was that, acoustically, they almost disappeared into a wide open soundstage. (I know, this is beginning to sound like subjectivist BS and I’ll get banned from ASR but there is a little more leeway on comments about loudspeakers)

 

[EdW]

Ed, is it worth thinking about not even moving past your current speakers for now, putting some budget into the room measurement/treatment and then re-assessing if what you have now actually could in a treated room provide the satisfaction that you are looking for? For people not in a permanent room that the speaker becomes their primary focus, that I get, but if somebody is in their permanent room I find it odd that very few people are willing to spend money on the room itself.

We will obsess over the cabinet design and crossover network, but the biggest elephant in the room is the room itself. I think it fair to say that the room is the most influential driver enclosure. I also think about the lesson that a well done outdoor amphitheater taught us, that even without amplification or speakers a persons voice could be heard loud and clear throughout. I know our rooms aren't capable of such wonders, but it really does provide a stark and vivid example of just how important the actual listening space really is.

You’re absolutely right here. I shall make the most of the UMIK to learn about speaker placement, listening position and if there are issues in the room which need to be damped out if at all possible. Much better to add some damping than to try to EQ it away.

 

[TonioRoffo]

Great that the Ref 3 is perfect for you. The thing about the blade was that, acoustically, they almost disappeared into a wide open soundstage. (I know, this is beginning to sound like subjectivist BS and I’ll get banned from ASR but there is a little more leeway on comments about loudspeakers)

I understand you completely, it's what KEF does very well. I'm sure there is a way to objectively measure disappearing speakers & great soundstage.

I'll refrain from more comments as I also do like ASR as well and (at least for source gear & amplification) I'm totally in the measure neutrally camp.

PS. Yes, in my room at least, Dirac Live fixed a lot of issues for me.

 

[EdW]

Hi

A bit obsessed by multiple subs. Any recommendation , coming from me, will mention, multi-subs, I apologize for the ad nauseum repetition:
My take:
Budget is up to $25,000?
I'd opt for the Revel F328Be (MSRP: $16,000.00/pair)
4 Rythmik F15HP Direct Servo subwoofer (MSRP: $5200.00 for 4) (Overkill, I know but...)
Some good DSP/Crossover/DAC/Preamp from $500 to $2000 to crossover the Revel to 75 Hz and leave the rest to the 4 subs. People in here will give you all kind of great choices with EQ, delay, perhaps Room Correction, etc.
Time to integrate these

And be in Heaven.

Hi Frantz
sounds like a great potential system. Quite a lot of setting up needed to get it absolutely optimised but as a retired EE I should try to rise to the challenge! One question: subs are fairly non directional so why 4 of them? How would they compare to one larger unit?

 

[A Surfer]

You’re absolutely right here. I shall make the most of the UMIK to learn about speaker placement, listening position and if there are issues in the room which need to be damped out if at all possible. Much better to add some damping than to try to EQ it away.

Sounds like a great place to start. There is a reason why with really well regarded live venues to play at, or recording studios people talk about the physical space first and how it effects the sound. It is a fundamental principle in any system, the whole is the sum of the parts, but that doesn't mean that certain parts do not exert a stronger influence than do others.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Hi Frantz
sounds like a great potential system. Quite a lot of setting up needed to get it absolutely optimised but as a retired EE I should try to rise to the challenge! One question: subs are fairly non directional so why 4 of them? How would they compare to one larger unit?

Multiple subs can deal with room modes, where one sub can not. Because LF has such large wave lengths, there are very few rooms that can properly integrate one sub. The rule of thumb is two subs fix most of the issues, a third can help and a fourth is best. You get less and less out of each sub, so four subs are better than two, but not twice as good.

I ran one undersized sub for almost a decade before going to a 2nd even SMALLER sub. It didn't make much difference. Recently I bought two Rythmik F15HP (same one's as @FrantzM suggested) and WOW! I use my original sub behind the seats for a nice seat rumble effect. Two quality subs, capable of handling your room, are highly recommended. If your budget allows and your room can hold them, four would be better.

 

[Rick Sykora]

As another retired engineer, suggest you take a more holistic approach. As mentioned earlier, you probably need at least 2 subwoofers and Dirac. While REW is great, it can be time consuming. I rather spend my time listening than measuring my system. If you stick to larger speakers, 2 subwoofers should suffice.

What are the room dimensions and what other constraints might you have? TV? Furniture? Spouse? Pets? How much flexibility do you have with placement?

 

[EdW]

As another retired engineer, suggest you take a more holistic approach. As mentioned earlier, you probably need at least 2 subwoofers and Dirac. While REW is great, it can be time consuming. I rather spend my time listening than measuring my system. If you stick to larger speakers, 2 subwoofers should suffice.

What are the room dimensions and what other constraints might you have? TV? Furniture? Spouse? Pets? How much flexibility do you have with placement?

I did rather gather that REW was a PITA. I thought I might learn a little from it before moving on to Dirac, Audiolenze or Acourate... Who knows I might appreciate them more after REW.
The negative for the KEF speakers is that with the 2 rear ports a larger distance from the rear wall may be needed compared to the B&W. Something to check out on a demo.

 

[Digital_Thor]

Yes - I agree on the overall thoughts on B&W. I measured a few of them in different priceranges - from the older P5 to the 800 series. Most of them have a rather big dip in the midrange area, which gives them this "sound". And if in doubt... I dont like them either
Absolutely go for a speaker with a good power response, like the Kii3 or Revel's. And for the love of - what ever you believe in - get someone to setup multiple subwoofers with whatever speakers you end up with. Even if you pay alot to design the room to be really wonderful in acoustical terms..... then multiple subwoofers will still give you a fantastic control and low well defined foundation in any type of music.
It can be argued, that you can EQ a good set of speakers, to perform well in ONE position, with a powerful DSP. But multiple subs..... just way better -and I've tried most DSP-magic-boxes

 

[EdW]

Multiple subs can deal with room modes, where one sub can not. Because LF has such large wave lengths, there are very few rooms that can properly integrate one sub. The rule of thumb is two subs fix most of the issues, a third can help and a fourth is best. You get less and less out of each sub, so four subs are better than two, but not twice as good.

I ran one undersized sub for almost a decade before going to a 2nd even SMALLER sub. It didn't make much difference. Recently I bought two Rythmik F15HP (same one's as @FrantzM suggested) and WOW! I use my original sub behind the seats for a nice seat rumble effect. Two quality subs, capable of handling your room, are highly recommended. If your budget allows and your room can hold them, four would be better.

Understand now. Thanks. I expect I will need to get some good DSP to ensure transient alignment.

 

[A Surfer]

Yes, I use two subs, smallish REL T Zero's, but in the smaller rooms that I have had they work well. I have also moved to decent sized floor standing speakers, Monitor Audio PL200 which themselves seem quite competent in general and certainly have some low end ability. Regardless of what we have, I don't think you would ever find any competent sound engineers who would say ignore the room and just focus on DSP and the speakers. I am not saying anyone here is giving that type of advice, but I can't for the life of me imagine why if somebody was in a permanent space they would not really look into the room effects first, solve those as much as possible/viable and then move on from there.

I guess where a possible divide might occur is whether or not DSP alone can adequately mitigate room issues, or whether physical mitigation techniques and or combined with DSP is the better approach. Ultimately it would come down to resources and time as I do know that properly treating a room requires time and money so not always the most practical/viable route.