First turntable - any suggestions?

[JeffS7444]

Well, you're giving away hi-fi potential. Unless you tackle the problem shown in the video I linked to above.

Did you measure it before concluding that ithe LP120’s internal preamplifier was junk? Don’t forget that you’ve also added a lot of load capacitance: Around 350 pF with preamp removed, versus <100 pF with internal preamp in use. With Ortofon 2M Red installed, the added capacitance creates a peak in the high frequency response, whereas I found it decently flat with built-in preamp engaged.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Did you measure it before concluding that ithe LP120’s internal preamplifier was junk?

No, I tried the turntable and the sound was dull. Then I tried to find out what it was. I had other turntables with the same pickup to compare. Also had several good phono-preamps at hand etc. After the modification the sound was more clear and transparent. For me it made a big difference. This was my own observation, before I found other colleagues on the Internet that pointed also to this.

But it's not that important for me, I just wanted to mention it. I would not recommend the AT 120 LP and I think that was the question here in the thread.

EDIT: If you are happy with the sound quality of the internal preamp, then this is another situation. This was not the case with me. I wanted to use better ones.

 

[Angsty]

When the budget is 500 euros, a built-in phono and an included cartridge are a great deal. Best to have the phono able to be bypassed and the cartridge to be readily upgradable.

@Biblob - were you also able to investigate the Pioneer PLX-500? I would be interested to know if it appeals to you.

 

[Timmeon]

To add some relevant data for comparison:

Wow and flutter: ±0,11
S/N - 70dB
Price in Germany 970 Euro

Hmmm...
Pro-ject Classic Turntable Japanese

 

[computer-audiophile]

Hmmm...
Pro-ject Classic Turntable Japanese

Pro-Ject is not Japanese, they are made in the Czech Republic.

 

[Angsty]

Pro-Ject is not Japanese, they are made in the Czech Republic.

True, but I’ve not seen one priced as low as this one sold at auction with shipping - great price.

 

[Angsty]

So you'd like this project I picked up ~6 years ago.

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The complexity and the shear number of “bits” to these idler turntables is a turnoff for me.

I had an idler driven Garrard changer I inherited that I could never bring back to spec, largely due to its mechanical complexity. I’d have to be a watchmaker to completely tear down and rebuild it.

So, my first turntable purchase was a VPI Traveler - a model of simplicity. One power switch controlling a 120v AC synchronous motor and a two-tiered pulley for platter speed control. A manual tonearm with a sapphire-contact gimbal bearing; no roller bearings.

It just doesn’t get any more straightforward than that.

 

[Biblob]

When the budget is 500 euros, a built-in phono and an included cartridge are a great deal. Best to have the phono able to be bypassed and the cartridge to be readily upgradable.

@Biblob - were you also able to investigate the Pioneer PLX-500? I would be interested to know if it appeals to you.

I have checked it out just now, looks like it's a fairly popular one too. New already in budget at around €350. And when looking to buy secondhand, it's even cheaper.

Any benefits (or downsiders) from this one compared to the At AT-LP5?

 

[JP]

The complexity and the shear number of “bits” to these idler turntables is a turnoff for me.

I had an idler driven Garrard changer I inherited that I could never bring back to spec, largely due to its mechanical complexity. I’d have to be a watchmaker to completely tear down and rebuild it.

So, my first turntable purchase was a VPI Traveler - a model of simplicity. One power switch controlling a 120v AC synchronous motor and a two-tiered pulley for platter speed control. A manual tonearm with a sapphire-contact gimbal bearing; no roller bearings.

It just doesn’t get any more straightforward than that.

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I don’t intend the Thorens to be a player, just a novelty piece that’d be fun to play with now and again. I bought it from HiFiDo junk shop and luckily it is complete. Over the years I’ve secured all the spare parts I need for it.

Now refurbished I fully expect my DDs to go another 40 years with the only maintenance being a couple drops of oil every year or so. I can’t to belts.

 

[mike70]

I don’t intend the Thorens to be a player, just a novelty piece that’d be fun to play with now and again. I bought it from HiFiDo junk shop and luckily it is complete. Over the years I’ve secured all the spare parts I need for it.

Now refurbished I fully expect my DDs to go another 40 years with the only maintenance being a couple drops of oil every year or so. I can’t to belts.

If it's a Technics vintage DD ... they need to add 2 drops of oil every 2k hours ... generally every 2-3 years.

The brand new ones are self lubricant, they doesn't need anything.

 

[JP]

More like not serviceable.

 

[mike70]

More like not serviceable.

I doubt the mk7 won't have parts and service in the future.

 

[JP]

I doubt the mk7 won't have parts and service in the future.

The bearing is not serviceable, as in not self-lubricating. No different than other non-serviceable/maintenance free bearing from back in the day. They expect the factory lubrication to outlast the ‘table.

 

[mike70]

The bearing is not serviceable, as in not self-lubricating. No different than other non-serviceable/maintenance free bearing from back in the day. They expect the factory lubrication to outlast the ‘table.

You can change the tonearm easily

 

[JP]

You can change the tonearm easily

What in the world are you talking about? The topic is platter bearings, not tonearms.

 

[mike70]

What in the world are you talking about? The topic is platter bearings, not tonearms.

Ok, tonearm have bearings as well and I thought you was talking about it ... reading topics and working is a bad habit

 

[JP]

The vast majority of tonearm bearings aren't lubricated.

 

[mike70]

The vast majority of tonearm bearings aren't lubricated.

Yes, I talked about the platter bearings to be oiled and after that I get lost. Simple.

 

[Timmeon]

@computer-audiophile Got a Pro-Ject Classic on its way. A risky buy for sure, the seller seemed like a bit of a dingbat who barely seemed to comprehend my questions but otherwise had good ratings. His photos were terrible but it looks unused. Perhaps this is how you grab a decent discount, $400 + shipping. Fingers crossed.

Any recommendations for a cart? Going to need a preamp as well. Curious how much thought needs to go into pairing the cart and preamp. How is Sumiko?

@Biblob Apologies for hijacking your thread! Any progress on your end?

 

[computer-audiophile]

@computer-audiophile Got a Pro-Ject Classic on its way. A risky buy for sure, the seller seemed like a bit of a dingbat who barely seemed to comprehend my questions but otherwise had good ratings. His photos were terrible but it looks unused. Perhaps this is how you grab a decent discount, $400 + shipping. Fingers crossed.

Any recommendations for a cart? Going to need a preamp as well. Curious how much thought needs to go into pairing the cart and preamp. How is Sumiko?

@Biblob Apologies for hijacking your thread! Any progress on your end?

Good luck!
My 'The Classic' had the Ortofon 2M Silver, which made a good combination imo. After many years of MC cartridges, special stepup-transformers, phonostages etc. I made my life easier using only MM Cartridges now.