First Hi Res headphone build - need some advice please.

[LDfades]

Hi all, new member here, wonder if someone can give me some advice on a Hi Res streaming setup I'm looking to create?

I'm currently using FiiO KA2 lightning dongle DAC with my iPhone and some Truthear IEMS. Since updating to iOS18 the volume is really low unless I have it at like 90%, plus I think I've had enough of the IEM form factor too.

So I'd like a Hi Res streamer for Tidal and/or Apple Music, that I can connect some decent (£100?) wired headphones into, and use my phone to choose music on Tidal and/or Apple Music.

Doing some of my own reading I've got a potential kitlist of: Topping DX3 Pro+, WiiM Mini, Sennheiser HD560S.

...but am open to making this less units (WiiM Ultra?) and definitely open to general advice on what might make a better setup in general.

Thanks for taking the time to read, hopefully I'm not coming across as the complete beginner that I am. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[LDfades]

The more I read, the more I get confused.

One minute I'm convinced on the FiiO SR11 + K11-R2R combination, then I go reading about the WiiM Pro Plus which changes my mind... not really getting anywhere...

One thing I'm really uncertain of is what bitrate to expect from any of the streamers when I'm connecting my phone wirelessly via an app. Is that dependent on what output I use to connect to the DAC?

Any thoughts advice most welcome...

 

[LDfades]

OK so I think I've got the short list down to the SMSL C200, DL200, or RAW-MDA1.

I'm not going to stream content (for now), I'm going to use Apple Music on my Windows laptop to connect to the DAC/amp. Headphone wise probably something like the Sennheiser HD560S, but always open to suggestions on this front...

Any thoughts on the DAC/amp shortlist?

 

[Gaius Helena Moheim]

I have been looking at dac's the last week and i ended up buying the Raw Mda1. It's on its way. Reasons are: internal power supply, 1.4w good quality headphone amp, excellent connectivity and excellent measurements.

 

[LDfades]

I have been looking at dac's the last week and i ended up buying the Raw Mda1. It's on its way. Reasons are: internal power supply, 1.4w good quality headphone amp, excellent connectivity and excellent measurements.

Presume you've had delivery? If so, what's your early impressions? I'm still pondering...

I'd gone around the houses and landed on the Schiit Magni Unity, but now i'm struggling to justify £220 on that unit when I can get the RAW MDA1 for an extra £20 with a bunch more connectivity that I don't need as a priority right now, but feels like I'm more future proofed vs the Schiit... I do intend on adding wireless streamer to the system as and when ££ becomes available...

 

[Gaius Helena Moheim]

Yes I did and I am quite satisfied. The build in headphone amplifier sounds better than the THX AAA one in my Btr17 in desktop mode and the software is mature. Something that can not be said about the Btr. The amp is more dynamic imho. Do keep in mind that this is my subjective impression.
It feels heavy and well build. It has no problem driving my more power hungry headphones and it has a completely dark noise floor with sensitive iem's.
As for your streamer. Have you considered a cheap Raspberry Pi music server with a SPDIF board like the Hifiberry Digi 2 or a 12 usd AliExpress clone? This is how I do my music streaming. The SPDIF is a bit perfect way to stream your files to your dac. There are different software solutions available. I use Volumio. It has a very nice interface for your phone or tablet and it works perfectly with the streaming services, local network NAS or local storage. This is really easy to build and configure without soldering. On YouTube you can find step by step instructions on how to do this. Maybe another way to save some money without sacrificing sound quality in any way?

 

[LDfades]

Apologies for digging up an old thread, but I've bought some stuff and sent some stuff back since my original post, but still a bit confused and unsure whether I can achieve what I want to.

Goal: streaming of Tidal and/or Apple Music in the highest possible quality with Last.fm scrobbling using my SMSL RAW MDA1 DAC.

Available options:
1) Windows laptop > USB > RAW MDA1 > Sennheiser HD560S (this has been my setup since day 1, however I've noticed that of late I'm having some issues when running UAC2 on the MDA1, I get playback issues on Tidal. I can of course switch this to UAC1 for more consistent playback but this is capped at 24/48 I believe when the DAC is capable of more)

2) Wireless streamer, currently trialling FiiO SR11 > USB > RAW MDA1 > Sennheiser HD560S (no Tidal Connect available so connection here is via Airplay, so everything is capped at 16/44.1 yet the documentation for the SR11 suggests its capable of much 'higher' resolution. I presume this is something to do with Roon as it's a Roon Ready device, but that is something I a) don't have, and b) don't understand. Does this need to be hardwired to something to get the 24/192 that my DAC is capable of? That just seems like an extra link the chain when I can go Laptop to DAC to headphones and achieve Hi Res)

I like the convenience of the wireless streaming on the SR11, but even though I know my ears probably can't distinguish a difference between 16/44.1 and 24/192 it feels like I'm throttling my £260 DAC down to 16/44.1 instead of getting the most out of it.

OK, so maybe I can look beyond the convenience of streaming, but now my laptop is having issues with UAC2 so the laptop option is capped also, though granted its capped at 24/48. Is this UAC1/UAC2 thing down to my laptop? The USB port? The cable I'm using to connect the two devices?

I did try the Wiim Mini for a period that worked well, but couldn't get it to Scrobble to Last.fm - I know someone on here gave some advice on how to achieve that but it looked like programming that was way over my head so I didn't go there. I did download iOS app AirScrobble last night which apparently will help with this, but I don't have the Wiim device with me anymore (Amazon return).

So at the moment it feels like whichever way I turn there's a compromise to be made. And then I start thinking about the fact I've spent £260 DAC, £100 streamer, £100 headphones, which might not be vast sums in the audio world, but spending £460 and accepting compromises just feels a little off. If the total bill was £200 with these limitations I'd be in a much better space I think, but now I'm wondering if there's an all-in-one at similar money that does everything I need in a single box?

Lots to unpack there I know, but my wife just looks at me with a blank face when I try and talk this through with her, so hopefully you knowledgeable folks can help me out.

 

[obsessive9119]

Here’s an annoying question for you (not having read the whole thread): given you have easy to drive headphones that don’t need EQ, why not just drive them straight from your phone or laptop?

I recently bought the HD560S too, and I’ve found I’m using my various steamer/dac/amp setups a lot less than I do with other headphones. I’m just using an Apple dongle or my FiiO BTR5.

 

[LDfades]

Here’s an annoying question for you (not having read the whole thread): given you have easy to drive headphones that don’t need EQ, why not just drive them straight from your phone or laptop?

I recently bought the HD560S too, and I’ve found I’m using my various steamer/dac/amp setups a lot less than I do with other headphones. I’m just using an Apple dongle or my FiiO BTR5.

That is a great question, and an angle I'd not thought about tbh.

Having just plugged HD560S directly into laptop it nearly blew my head off when I chose the correct output on Tidal, so definitely no issue running them at a decent volume.

So if it says it's playing Slayer (other metal bands are available) at 24/96 that's what I'm getting direct from the laptop to the headphones? If so (and here's where it relates to your "annoying question") why have I got a £260 DAC sat here next to my laptop?

EDIT: On the phone question, I was quite happily running some IEMs on my phone last year, but then an Apple update nerfed the volume so I had to have the phone volume on 95% and even then it wasn't loud enough, hence the move to HD560S and laptop/DAC setup.

 

[obsessive9119]

That is a great question, and an angle I'd not thought about tbh.

Having just plugged HD560S directly into laptop it nearly blew my head off when I chose the correct output on Tidal, so definitely no issue running them at a decent volume.

So if it says it's playing Slayer (other metal bands are available) at 24/96 that's what I'm getting direct from the laptop to the headphones? If so (and here's where it relates to your "annoying question") why have I got a £260 DAC sat here next to my laptop?

Haha why indeed? Probably the same reason I have 2 streamer + headphone amp setups in 2 different rooms, and an trying to convince myself to not set up a 3rd

Audio quality will depend on your laptop’s DAC and headphone out implementation. I know Apple laptops perform well, not sure about others. Worst case you can buy an Apple dongle for $10 and plug it into your phone or laptop. Or if you’re feeling fancy, go down the rabbit hole of Chinese brand dongles.

 

[LDfades]

Haha why indeed? Probably the same reason I have 2 streamer + headphone amp setups in 2 different rooms, and an trying to convince myself to not set up a 3rd

Audio quality will depend on your laptop’s DAC and headphone out implementation. I know Apple laptops perform well, not sure about others. Worst case you can buy an Apple dongle for $10 and plug it into your phone or laptop. Or if you’re feeling fancy, go down the rabbit hole of Chinese brand dongles.

Good point. The MDA1 does sound very nice, I'd have to do some further testing with the direct laptop connection to see if I can tell a difference.

Also I did an edit on my earlier reply ref phone/dongles etc.

 

[LDfades]

Seems I can get >24/192 wirelessly from my phone using the Roon app, which seems a bit slow to start tracks and stuff but appears to be getting the higher res numbers... don't even know how much Roon costs but running a 2-week trial for now... Still not sure which path ultimately to go down... I think if I could get consistent playback using laptop & DAC at best possible quality that would be sufficient. Just not sure about that UAC1/UAC2 thing...

 

[obsessive9119]

I think you'd be fine if it wasn't for the last.fm requirement. One of my setups is a WiiM Pro -> optical -> SMSL C200 and it happily does 24/192.

Just FWIW - the likelihood of you hearing the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/192 is vanishingly small. I still stream the highest res available, because why not, but I don't think it makes any real difference. It's not like 4k vs 1080p vs 720p which are immediately obvious. 16/44.1 is for almost all intents and purposes as high a resolution as you need for listening (high res when recording/mixing/mastering is a different issue).

 

[LDfades]

I think you'd be fine if it wasn't for the last.fm requirement. One of my setups is a WiiM Pro -> optical -> SMSL C200 and it happily does 24/192.

Just FWIW - the likelihood of you hearing the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/192 is vanishingly small. I still stream the highest res available, because why not, but I don't think it makes any real difference. It's not like 4k vs 1080p vs 720p which are immediately obvious. 16/44.1 is for almost all intents and purposes as high a resolution as you need for listening (high res when recording/mixing/mastering is a different issue).

That sounds like a nice setup, and I see Amazon have the C200 reduced to £142 at the moment... (I don't need any more DACs, I don't need any more DACs)...

It's the Last.fm thing that I know is going to cause issues.

I think I'll return the FiiO SR11 - it's £100 that isn't really doing an awful lot - and work on getting a reliable connection from my laptop USB to the DAC for now, and maybe give another Wiim product a go in the future using AirScrobble iOS app to see if that does the trick regarding Last.fm.

 

[LDfades]

Quick update, I think I've finally landed on a setup that ticks all of the boxes I wanted to tick:

iPhone using Qobuz Connect > WiiM Pro (this could/should probably be a Mini but I returned that to Amazon a month or so ago) > SMSL RAW MDA1 > Senn HD560S

With this I can stream from my phone, up to 24/192 (even though I know my ears probably can't tell the difference between CD quality and 24/192), AND still carry through Scrobble stats from Last.fm

No need for the clunky work laptop to be powered up (looking at you Roon), I now have convenience *and* highest possible quality. I think (for now) it's mission accomplished.