Fiio E10k outperforming DX3 with Sennheiser 6xx. How could it be?

[maxxevv]

In the realm of something physical like bicycles, there has been some controversy the last few years because laboratory procedures for testing the efficiency of bicycle tires favor skinny, highly inflated tires for measuring rolling efficiency - the ultimate efficiency would be from a hard steel hoop because it loses no energy to rolling reistance. Yet such a tire would prove to be horribly inefficient for a real human riding on a surface that isn't perfectly smooth, because a rigid tire tends to cause hysteresis in the whole bike/rider system - rattling the rider around, and wasting energy by transforming forward momentum into vertical displacement every time there is a bump or dip on the road. A softer, wider tire absorbs the irregularities in the road surface as deformation of the tire and actually conserves forward momentum much better - even if it performs poorly on a laboratory test rig.
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I have spent over the last 25 years mulling over the various aspects of bicyle design.

Why lab actually says that ? Citations needed.

 

[ricmuz_]

When going about it in the subjective way then this is the way to go indeed.
Compare and keep what you like.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Berwhale]

By the way, could you kindly tell me where you got that plugin?

https://www.toneboosters.com/tb_morphit_v1.html

You can install and try the VST in demo mode. It seems to have full functionality apart from the ability to save your settings between sessions.

Morphit is also available for phones, I bought the Android version which is available as an in app purchase in USB Audio Player Pro. I think it was £3.50 which is a bit of a bargain.

 

[Berwhale]

I have spent over the last 25 years mulling over the various aspects of bicyle design.

Why lab actually says that ? Citations needed.

Wheel Energy in Finland, according to Lennard Zinn who went there...

https://www.velonews.com/2014/12/bi...essure-width-affect-rolling-resistance_355085

 

[ricmuz_]

https://www.toneboosters.com/tb_morphit_v1.html

You can install and try the VST in demo mode. It seems to have full functionality apart from the ability to save your settings between sessions.

Morphit is also available for phones, I bought the Android version which is available as an in app purchase in USB Audio Player Pro. I think it was £3.50 which is a bit of a bargain.

Where do I find the free setup? It only lets me add the full product to the cart...
I've tried downloading the plugin installer in the "download" section but that seems to be something different, after installing it I can't find any new software in my Windows nor any new plugins in my MusicBee...

 

[Berwhale]

Where do I find the free setup? It only lets me add the full product to the cart...
I've tried downloading the plugin installer in the "download" section but that seems to be something different, after installing it I can't find any new software in my Windows nor any new plugins in my MusicBee...

1. Install the VST support plug-in in MusicBee: https://www.getmusicbee.com/addons/plugins/16/vst-effects-support/
2. Point the VST support plug-in to your VST2 directory (should be C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST2\ToneBoosters\Morphit_v1 by default)...

3. Restart MusicBee, go to DSP & Equalizer settings and tick the entry for Morphit...

4. Click on the Morphit entry to bring up the Morphit configuration dialog.

5. Morphit can only handle one VST directory, if you want access to additional VSTs (i.e. the other ToneBooster ones) you need to put them in the same directory (I created a new dir and copied the ones I wanted to play with into there.)

 

[TuneInSoul]

English is not my first language, I hope you can understand.
I think it is quite certain that the output power and electricity of the 2 gears are different, and headphones are just a device that handle electricity, so the sound of the two must be different. But maybe it is not easy to discern.
You should consider the Dac,amp,cables,headphones and other factors as a whole part, they together output the sound. So it is not easy to answer your question, only one thing is obvious : the electric and audio signals of one system are not identical with the other one’s, then you find differnence.

 

[Tks]

It shouldn't be surprising that individual measurements don't tell the whole story for real world performance. I have done various kinds of computer benchmarking over the years, and I assure you that unless what you are measuring is a good simulation of how you intend to actually use something, the numbers can be very deceiving.

As a specific example, measurements of how a computer performs when reading a single very large file may tell you almost nothing about how it performs when reading a large number of teeny-tiny files that add up to the same size, or how it performs when writing files instead of reading files.

In the realm of something physical like bicycles, there has been some controversy the last few years because laboratory procedures for testing the efficiency of bicycle tires favor skinny, highly inflated tires for measuring rolling efficiency - the ultimate efficiency would be from a hard steel hoop because it loses no energy to rolling resistance. Yet such a tire would prove to be horribly inefficient for a real human riding on a surface that isn't perfectly smooth, because a rigid tire tends to cause hysteresis in the whole bike/rider system - rattling the rider around, and wasting energy by transforming forward momentum into vertical displacement every time there is a bump or dip on the road. A softer, wider tire absorbs the irregularities in the road surface as deformation of the tire and actually conserves forward momentum much better - even if it performs poorly on a laboratory test rig.

Amir's tests are measurements of specific things, and they are valuable in sussing out shabby engineering, but they measure simple values: the music we listen to doesn't consist entirely of 1kz tones and sine waves.

While I can agree with the initial opening statement. The elaboration I disagree wholeheartedly. There are benchmarks for those "teeny tiny" files. Unlike computer benchmarking though, audiophiles talk about how measurements don't pain the full picture because benchmarks for the things they're hearing don't exist now (and some insinuate "never" could due to no way of replicating the brain, and other such nonsense).

Also, not every outlet that does testing, is mandated to employ every single benchmark in existence in order to prove a point. If you have 25% THD for example, why would anyone need to worry about frequency response characteristics at that point in an Amp or Dac? Likewise with computers, no one cares for the 4k random write speeds of an NvME based SSD, if your system is running with a 500Mhz processor.

Likewise for bike manufacturers testing efficiency. They're trying to grab a certain understanding, and apply it consistently accross their testing. While tests can always be sub par, and deserving of better/more sensible standardization of benchmarking that argues points that would translate to better real-world grasp of the bike "overall". That is a far cry of saying individual testing couldn't tell a complete enough story for certain consumers. And also, no one is just looking at individual measurements. This is why THD isn't the only spec people should be looking out for. Things like power ratings and such also have their place, and is why they're included in any sensible spec sheet.

The error of people in this hobby is a disastrousl critical thinking lapse. And it goes something like this:

"Measuring the THD doesn't pain the full picture of how our ears perceive sound, so forget all this measurement nonsense."

Basically translated as: Because this doesn't serve me as much as I wanted it, or betrayed my subjective experience, I am going to ignore most/all measurements like this as they all are now possibly deceptive to me. Oh and also going to ignore all the proponents of this approach because they base their whole outlook on this stuff, so even if they say something I have no opinion on, I will be default ignore that as well just for precaution.

As if to somehow indicate having less information could ever paint a clear picture about something you're inquiring about. This is a massive logically fallacious behavior to have.

 

[Deleted member 9685]

Did you turn off bass switch on FiiO E10K? The bass boost switch on FiiO E10K artificially boosts low frequencies.

 

[Rockfella]

And here I was thinking I will be bashed if i say my E10 sounds more fun than K5 Pro and I see this thread I have not done detailed listening and I know K5 Pro is more clean and very sharp but I tell you E10/K is damn good for the price and I will not sell/give it away.

 

[dessie]

The E10k is too low powered to drive the HD6xx series (as well as the HD58X which is equally sensitive) to 'impressive' sound levels.
Just use it as a DAC and choose an amp that can deliver >100mW into 300 Ohm.

What you are hearing is not differences in the DAC chip.

The HD58x and HD650 have a somewhat similar tonal balance but do not sound the same. Differences are too big to sound the same.

Will a Fiio K5 Pro have enough power for the HD58X? I'm currently using a Fiio E10K for my HD58X.

 

[solderdude]

K5 Pro = 300mW into 150 Ohm.
The driver is rated for 500mW.
Depending on how much EQ one uses and how loud it must play it could be between more than sufficient or slightly low in power.

a 500mW continuous power headphone can easily handle 2W of short peaks in music.

 

[pagan84]

Hi Guys,
HD6XX owner here, moving from E10k to Atom/D10, K5pro or DX3. Someone mentioned that with better amp these headphones sound better (more clear). Can anyone confirm that? My understanding is that E10k is not powerful enough and with a proper amp my cans will reach their full potential.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Cheers!