Explain to me what I'm hearing from 45W to 80W

[Spkrdctr]

There's nothing wrong with the Denon... I just find this hilarous - I plugged both in again, and the difference is so clear to me, there's just no low end with the Denon compared to the Cambridge Audio. End of story. We watched a movie and the Denon simply couldn't deliver the same experience (my wife told me this, without knowing which was even plugged in, plus she doesn't even know which is which, she has far better ears than I do)

I think people who think all amps sound the same, are not really listening to music and are completely biased.

I'm going to get a 400W amp and see if that makes a difference.

400 watts will hook you up!

 

[uwotm8]

This is about power supply and current output so choose your 400W amp wisely: there's enough high-Watt Denon-sounding amps.

Curious if you'd like how discontinued NAD C375 sounds, at one moment it was arguably the cheapest powerhouse among comparable home hi-fi amps.

Decade and half ago NAD Silverline S300 just blew me away, dat thing had crushing power and same-priced top-of-the-line Arcam was just buzzing boringly (yep, that's subjective).

 

[Cbdb2]

You are forgetting that the minimum impedence of the speakers is 3.2 ohms, and that the Denon doesn't have the current to go there. '.

Go where? If the power delivered doesn't pull more current than the amp can supply it doesn't matter. At 2 watts and 2 ohms an amp only has to put out 1 amp. The Denon can deliver that, so at low power it can drive 2ohms just fine.

 

[dasdoing]

The guy says there is a big diference and people are saying he is too stupid to volume match?
come on.

on the other hand @OP, unless one is distorting there realy should be no audible diferences.
first thing I would check is tone controls. are they all at 0?

 

[weasels]

The guy says there is a big diference and people are saying he is too stupid to volume match?
come one.

on the other hand @OP, unless one is distorting there realy should be no audible diferences.
first thing I would check is tone controls. are they all at 0?

No one said he's too stupid to level match - he said he hasn't and doesn't see the point.

This whole thread is a waste of time.

 

[solderdude]

Yep, he should just buy a powerful amp of good standing and be done with it.
I believe OP already mentioned he is in this process.
He will like it and state these amps, again, sound better (or worse) than the other amps.
So be it. We should all get over it.

 

[ahofer]

We should all get over it.

But then what would we argue about?

 

[simplywyn]

No one said he's too stupid to level match - he said he hasn't and doesn't see the point.

This whole thread is a waste of time.

I never said I haven't you all just assumed so. I never said I didn't try a bunch of difference things.

It isn't hard to volume match, it's not hard to compare two amps at approximately the same volume, what you're really saying is I'm too stupid for your pride and ego.

Anyway, those who think a Denon 45W amp will drive a Q950 with 2 8 inch drivers and produces the same sound as a 80W Cambridge Audio, okay sure, I call that purchase bias.

 

[escksu]

No one said he's too stupid to level match - he said he hasn't and doesn't see the point.

This whole thread is a waste of time.

Its a waste of time and yet you still come in to post.....lol. this is why this forum is so interesting....

 

[escksu]

Oh good grief. I’m out of here.

Haha, take it easy. No point letting them affect your mood.

 

[escksu]

I never said I haven't you all just assumed so. I never said I didn't try a bunch of difference things.

It isn't hard to volume match, it's not hard to compare two amps at approximately the same volume, what you're really saying is I'm too stupid for your pride and ego.

Anyway, those who think a Denon 45W amp will drive a Q950 with 2 8 inch drivers and produces the same sound as a 80W Cambridge Audio, okay sure, I call that purchase bias.

I have to say you posted the wrong question in the wrong forum. In a normal hifi forum, most would understand what you are talking about. However, this is not the case for here. And then, pple here are also alot hostile and egoistic (whether this is associated with covid or not, I don't know).

 

[dasdoing]

I never said I haven't you all just assumed so. I never said I didn't try a bunch of difference things.

It isn't hard to volume match, it's not hard to compare two amps at approximately the same volume, what you're really saying is I'm too stupid for your pride and ego.

Anyway, those who think a Denon 45W amp will drive a Q950 with 2 8 inch drivers and produces the same sound as a 80W Cambridge Audio, okay sure, I call that purchase bias.

you are saying that they produce diferent FRs. that is very easy to verify. plug a laptop to the digital inputs, run REW through them and output back to the PC

 

[rkbates]

you are saying that they produce diferent FRs. that is very easy to verify. plug a laptop to the digital inputs, run REW through them and output back to the PC

I for one would certainly find that very interesting - a mic feeding REW to compare different amps. Don't change the mic or speaker positioning, just the amp. Even a crappy mike will show the sort of differences that are being described. I have a Denon PMA 520 AE (almost identical specs to the OPs amp) so curious to see the outcome.

 

[escksu]

I for one would certainly find that very interesting - a mic feeding REW to compare different amps. Don't change the mic or speaker positioning, just the amp. Even a crappy mike will show the sort of differences that are being described. I have a Denon PMA 520 AE (almost identical specs to the OPs amp) so curious to see the outcome.

Haha, you are funny. Because quite a few (including myself) ever propose such a thing. Then, the answer from here is that this is a waste of time. Should just test the amp outputs directly.

 

[Wseaton]

Am I missing something here? I believe both units in question are integrated amps, right?

This means there's about a billion settings, presets, pre amp issues, and other variables in the audio stream well before it hits the amplifier stage that can drastically affect the sound the way the OP describes.

Everybody automatically assumes its the amplifier stage. Integrated amps are basically A/V receivers minus a few gimmicks and I have money on it not being an amp issue but something upstream.

For the record I used to sell high end audio years ago and hate denon with a passion. Their midrange units were sonically inferior to Yammy and Pioneer in the same price range, and I could hear the difference via an open window mowing my lawn.

 

[rkbates]

Haha, you are funny. Because quite a few (including myself) ever propose such a thing. Then, the answer from here is that this is a waste of time. Should just test the amp outputs directly.

If I was doing it, I'd measure the amp output directly because I can dodgy up an appropriate divider and ensure there were no ground loops or other interference. In this case, I'd use a mic because it should eliminate lots of arguments. Not looking for absolute accuracy, just gross differences in amps.

 

[simplywyn]

Am I missing something here? I believe both units in question are integrated amps, right?

This means there's about a billion settings, presets, pre amp issues, and other variables in the audio stream well before it hits the amplifier stage that can drastically affect the sound the way the OP describes.

Everybody automatically assumes its the amplifier stage. Integrated amps are basically A/V receivers minus a few gimmicks and I have money on it not being an amp issue but something upstream.

For the record I used to sell high end audio years ago and hate denon with a passion. Their midrange units were sonically inferior to Yammy and Pioneer in the same price range, and I could hear the difference via an open window mowing my lawn.

I have a topping d90 feeding them rca, so they should be just amping

 

[escksu]

If I was doing it, I'd measure the amp output directly because I can dodgy up an appropriate divider and ensure there were no ground loops or other interference. In this case, I'd use a mic because it should eliminate lots of arguments. Not looking for absolute accuracy, just gross differences in amps.

Yes, I did suggest the mic as a definite proof to see if cables to make a difference. My POV is that if cables/amps don't make a difference, then the sound recorded by the mic should have no difference. Of course, minute differences do occur even if you use the same equipment to play the same music. However, this can be average out by taking a large number of samples. Eg. play the same segment of the music 10 times and get the average.

The best thing is that you can do this same test by changing 1 component of the equipment (Even power cable) and test if there is a difference. To ensure accuracy, we could even keep the temp and pressure in the room at 25C and ~101KPA (STP). Regulate the temp of the equipment, fix a range of operating temp (say 60-65C) (temp affects their operation). Then we can have a huge power condition/regulator to ensure power supplied is constant and don't fluctuate too much.

Unfortunately, the answer I get is that its pointless because measuring the cable directly or amp outputs directly will do. I gave up.

 

[escksu]

For the record I used to sell high end audio years ago and hate denon with a passion. Their midrange units were sonically inferior to Yammy and Pioneer in the same price range, and I could hear the difference via an open window mowing my lawn.

Did you ensure the volume are matching when you test? Any measurements? Blind testing? Placebo? Pple here will tell you they are supposed to sound the same etc....

 

[solderdude]

However, this can be average out by taking a large number of samples. Eg. play the same segment of the music 10 times and get the average.

clock drift between DAC and ADC may be an issue when averaging between 10 attempts.