Experiences of and / or measurements Peerless SLS series?

[DanielT]

He he.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

He he.

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I have a pair of these as well. For a few years they have been sitting upright like this on a shelf in the basement. Recently found that they have been used as Kitty cat beds. Centers were crushed in! Vacuum cleaner solved it though.

 

[DanielT]

I have a pair of these as well. For a few years they have been sitting upright like this on a shelf in the basement. Recently found that they have been used as Kitty cat beds. Centers were crushed in! Vacuum cleaner solved it though.

Although it sounds a little strange to say, these elements are better bog standard, at a good price. Now I will not say too much because I have not done anything with them yet but they can probably be affordable elements for a simpler, beginner DIY project . They cost $ 65 each. I think that is a very good price in relation to the performance.

 

[DanielT]

Listening impression SLS10. I managed to buy two finished DIY bass modules with SLS10 in them at a really good price. First I tried power them with amplifier HK670, but I didn't really think it was enough. HK 670, power: 70 W in 8 Ohm. I thought it was missing something when I played hard bass pumped music. Tried after that to plug in my t-amp (now with silent fans, or as quiet as they get). Now it "breathes" better, at a higher volume.
Since the SLS10 has a power of 140 W, I want to run them with an amp that can drive them to the bottom without the amplifier itself starting to sweat and being driven into clipping.

Conclusion? I think the bass is good, even if you don't get the lowest frequencies. SLS10 , 8 Ohm driver, power 140 W, sensitivity 87.5 dB. See here:

Peerless SLS-P830668 - 10″ Woofer

10″ Woofer, 35 Hz, 140 W, 87 dB, 8 Ω

www.loudspeakerdatabase.com

So SLS10 in sealed boxes of 45 litres. You don't get the lowest frequencies. And since they are in sealed boxes not as effective as ported ones. There is, of course, a limit to how much bass pumping they can handle in a normal sized living room with heavy bass pumping music playing. There is a limit to how loud the volume can be, before it starts to distort. You have to be prepared for that if you are going to use/test SLS 10. My tip then, if more bass is desired. Two SLS 10 in each speaker box, connect them in 4 Ohm and increase the sensitivity by 6 dB. 6 dB is a lot! But it is very much a matter of taste. Are you a bass addict or not? That is the question.

I've rigged up mostly to test. Top speakers are JPW Mini Monitors, they stand on empty wooden boxes just so I can get them up to a suitable listening height.

Source Spotify
DAC Topping E30. From it to an active crossover, this:

LD Systems X 223 LDX223

The LD Systems X223 is a stereo 2 way / mono 3 way crossover in standard 19"/1U rack format. Its rugged construction, high quality and robust knobs as well as the integrated power unit are rarities in this price range. It provides a...

www.adamhall.com

Very reminiscent of this:

dbx 223xs Crossover Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the dbx 223xs active analog balanced crossover. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $245. I must say this is a nice and sturdy package for such a bargain price. Controls feel nice as well. Functionality though is confusing given the...

audiosciencereview.com

Power amp t amp drives SLS10 and Reciver HK330C drives JPW mini monitors. The vintage HK330C receiver doesn't have that much power (measured at 29 W) but since I put the crossover (HP-LP, 24 dB filter) to 120 Hz (I'm testing different levels now) it cope fine to drives a pair of 87 dB sensitive speakers. 330C doesn't have to work with anything below around 120 Hz. The HK330C feels good about it, so to say.
I am attaching some miscellaneous pictures of my test setup.

Of course everything needs to be measured with a measuring microphone and EQ will be needed. But it's not that important with this set up. JPW The mini monitors are just extra test speakers and I will be using four SLS10. I will return.

Edit:
The speakers are a little too far out in the room now, but still. More bass if I push them against the wall.Sound generally way better in that case. But it is fine-tuning that applies then.

 

[digitalfrost]

For shits and giggles would you try placing a 820uF capacitor in front of each chassis?

As you can see the response has hump because of the low enclosure size (black). If you add a capacitor of appropriate size, while you loose some efficiency in the higher frequency ranges, you gain SPL in the lower ones and smooth out the response. Something like Audyn CAP ELKO RAUH or JANTZEN AUDIO ELECAP will work (or this).

 

[DanielT]

For shits and giggles would you try placing a 820uF capacitor in front of each chassis?

View attachment 228659

As you can see the response has hump because of the low enclosure size (black). If you add a capacitor of appropriate size, while you loose some efficiency in the higher frequency ranges, you gain SPL in the lower ones and smooth out the response. Something like Audyn CAP ELKO RAUH or JANTZEN AUDIO ELECAP will work (or this).

Thanks for the tip!

If I had a suitable capacitor at home, sure. I don't intend to keep those boxes, they came with the purchase of the SLS 10. They, the boxes, are poorly braced. Needs to be fixed but then I can basically make new boxes instead of sawing them apart. Also, I'm not quite sure how wide my baffle on my three-way DIY speakers should be, or will be. Probably wider than that. If I set the crossover frequency to 300 Hz between the SLS 10 and the midrange driver, then, um, around 50 cm wide baffle for the midrange driver to get baffelsupport down to around 300 Hz (around that). When I think about it, I can then test dipole midrange (if midrange driver is mounted, placed on a 50 cm wide open baffle) vs box midrange. Maybe it would be a fun test.

What I'm going to test now is to turn on the low cut functionality in the active crossover filter. It cuts at 40 Hz.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

EQ them.

 

[DanielT]

EQ them.

It comes at a later stage, EQ. I will have two SLS 10 in each box. But of course, I should measure them with UMIK now, mostly to see the result. I will do it next week.

Right now just a test to feel the limits. Much like an acceleration, braking test with a car.

SLS 10 behaved as I suspected. I'm mostly surprised regarding the big difference amp HK670 (70 W in 8 Ohm) vs t amp (350 W in 8 Ohm ) when the respective amp powerd them. Perhaps not so strange and no surprise, but still.

As for subwoofer, they really eat /need power.

 

[tomtoo]

It comes at a later stage, EQ. I will have two SLS 10 in each box. But of course, I should measure them with UMIK now, mostly to see the result. I will do it next week.

Right now just a test to feel the limits. Much like an acceleration, braking test with a car.

SLS 10 behaved as I suspected. I'm mostly surprised regarding the big difference amp HK670 (70 W in 8 Ohm) vs t amp (350 W in 8 Ohm ) when the respective amp powerd them. Perhaps not so strange and no surprise, but still.

As for subwoofer, they really eat /need power.

POWER! And huge cases and 18inch woofers! I joke...a little.

 

[digitalfrost]

If you can measure I'd be really interested if you can show a difference between the amps or if it's just psychological

 

[tomtoo]

If you can measure I'd be really interested if you can show a difference between the amps or if it's just psychological

4 times the power. 6dB there i would not dig into psychology. Its like putting a speaker on a wall or not. And that you can hear.

 

[DanielT]

If you can measure I'd be really interested if you can show a difference between the amps or if it's just psychological

That would be really interesting.
There is only one small crux. I have UMIK, but I have not yet connected the mic. I'm a total newbie with microphone measurements, but surely it might be possible to pump out the test signal via any amp, right?

BUT then I only measure FR and not distortion, hm...

In any case when I plugged in the HK670 I thought it would fix the SLS10 easily. I had no preconceived notions about that. Added to that I played the most bass pumping techno I could find, and at HIGH volume. At lower volume I heard no difference.

When playing at high volume, I disconnected those mini monitors. Otherwise I would have needed hearing protection considering how long I was playing at high volume.

 

[digitalfrost]

4 times the power. 6dB there i would not dig into psychology.

Well I assume he compensated for loudness, so you're really gonna tell me he uses more than 70W in a sealed sub?

 

[DanielT]

4 times the power. 6dB there i would not dig into psychology.

Yep, when I connect two in each box and connect them in 4 Ohm.

Right now, what I tested was an SLS10 driver, 8 Ohm, in each box.

 

[DanielT]

Well I assume he compensated for loudness, so you're really gonna tell me he uses more than 70W in a sealed sub?

I think it did, needed more than 70w amp power.

I can measure with a dB meter, I realized now. If the dB measuring app is good for that?

Remember LOUD volume, bass pumping music. Subwoofer eats power.

Edit:
Have you seen any commercial subwoffer that has two 10 inch sub drivers fed with only 70w?

 

[tomtoo]

Well I assume he compensated for loudness, so you're really gonna tell me he uses more than 70W in a sealed sub?

If you just test for ummpf you not compensate loudness. Where should be the problem to use more than 70W? 70W in a sub. If i would be a bad boy i would say at 700W we leave slowly the toy class.

 

[digitalfrost]

SLS10 has an xmax of 8,3mm and will touch that with 60W in a closed box of 45ltrs. It will exceed it with 70W below 40hz. Not saying it doesn't make a difference, depends on your content I guess. Still think 70W should be plenty.

 

[tomtoo]

SLS10 has an xmax of 8,3mm and will touch that with 60W in a closed box of 45ltrs. It will exceed it with 70W below 40hz. Not saying it doesn't make a difference, depends on your content I guess. Still think 70W should be plenty.

View attachment 228728

He listend to techno, most time no deep content. And leaving the linear zone?
Let me add. With 4 times the power i realy not think i would like to call the psychology department to explain some differences. With most techno you can do a 40HZ hpf. And there is no bigger difference.

 

[DanielT]

SLS10 has an xmax of 8,3mm and will touch that with 60W in a closed box of 45ltrs. It will exceed it with 70W below 40hz. Not saying it doesn't make a difference, depends on your content I guess. Still think 70W should be plenty.

View attachment 228728

Your calculations are most certainly correct. But with bass music with a lot of peaks a lot of dynamics?

Dipping Ohms/fluttering Impedance I think we can ignore. Partly SLS10 is at 8 Ohm and HK670 is current strong..

There is of course the possibility that I am just imagining things. I admit that. ... But... hm... I don't really know...maybe.

 

[DanielT]

An OT rant:
Damn this is fun. Trial and error.

Even more fun than fixing the "best" audiophile sound. I'm not really that picky. No direct annoying noise, amp with 0.1-0.05% distortion that doesn't drive into clipping then I'm happy on the electronic side. DAC tests here at ASR do not interest me nowadays. What does it matter? Pancake flat FR inaudible diatorsion /noise, which most DACs now have. Also, if you plug in external DSP, active crossovers in the chain as I do, what does super DAC performance matter? What is brought into the chain cannot be conjured away. It just adds up. Balanced can be interesting to know about a DAC in and of itself. But beyond that?

It doesn't matter. Everything still comes down to the speakers, when it is "sharp" mode. Then I want sensible FR, distortion I can't do anything about. Fixing placement and room acoustics is also of interest to me.

A side note. Those who are concerned about the smallest dB deviation, distortion regarding headphone amplifiers. Have they seen what the FR on on headphones can look like? 5-10 dB diff.If I were a "headphone guy" then what I would have been interested in, apart from how nice the headphones are to wear, is how EQ friendly they are. Low distortion is of course a good parameter for headphones.


... Matthew 23:24.... "You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel."
Not because I'm a believer but fitting quote.

Edit:
It was all over the place. I admit it. Had to get it out of me. Sorry for the OT rant.

No new thoughts actually, see PMA #50

"You know - audio systems in fact do not need distortion or sinad breaking numbers. It is just a number game here to let the show go on. With some experience, we know that 60dB is good enough and above 80dB it is really only number game. But this cannot be admitted, here.

Speakers and room acoustics are the only space for improvement, nowadays."

JBL SA600 Vintage Amplifier Review

Oh. The spec is half that @amirm https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Audio-IDX/IDX/60s/Audio-1968-02-OCR-Page-0011.pdf They say 80 watts but it’s really 40W per channel. Thought older amps were known to be underrated o.o

audiosciencereview.com

There are also deiced threads on the subject.