Exciting news from Onkyo and Pioneer: TX-RZ70/ VSX-LX705, TX-RZ9/VSX-LX905 = Auro 3D + DLBC!

[NeedForSpeed73]

It's a shame that someone from the US doesn't have it sent to Amir for measurements first. If it were me, I would definitely do it for myself and the community.

I'm sorry, but I'm in Italy and sending it to the US would be rather expensive (and dangerous, provided the long journey). And btw, being an European machine it runs on 220V-60Hz and I don't know if using a voltage converter could, somehow, compromise the measures.

 

[Theetjuh]

You don’t have to explain yourself, you have every right!

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

You don’t have to explain yourself, you have every right!

I don't felt the need to explain myself, but just to let know that I'm not in the US, so for me, it's rather complicated to lend the machine to Amir for his testing.

 

[Theetjuh]

Same here, also from the EU, hoping that the LX805 is tested before I buy it when it is available in the Netherlands

 

[DrStranger]

I'm very disappointed about the lack of review of RZ70 and the difficult to buy one in Italy

Here you go, here is one:

 

[ArturoKiwi]

Here you go, here is one:

Did you like it?
RZ70's owner, do you think that the review is good?

 

[ArturoKiwi]

No one want to say a word about the review?

 

[DrStranger]

No one want to say a word about the review?

Here you go:

IMO: Pio, Onky and Int have absolutley nothing special that really separates them, between them or thier bigger/smaller sibblings imo. Just like Den and Mar. As for the above, I was not impressed, not even by the Pio. The only thing that will grab my interest, is Class-D! This Class A/AB, to me, is a joke. One pay 1000-3000 for something that has an spec of 140w, but in real life gives you no way near, and thats a joke. At least D will give you bang for the buck.

As for the review it self, I was irritated by the answer that Onkyo gave AR , about component is different.... Correct me if I am wrong, but the class is, Onkyo is their lowest brand, then Pio is their better and Integra is their best, right?

Its a big yawn right now, at least where I am from, the prices are insane for the AVR's , I am just anoyed by the fact we dont have anything that has evolved or revolution in terms of AVR, new/improved calibration techologies are NOT it, at least not for me.

Yes... I am desperate...

 

[dlaloum]

Here you go:

IMO: Pio, Onky and Int have absolutley nothing special that really separates them, between them or thier bigger/smaller sibblings imo. Just like Den and Mar. As for the above, I was not impressed, not even by the Pio. The only thing that will grab my interest, is Class-D! This Class A/AB, to me, is a joke. One pay 1000-3000 for something that has an spec of 140w, but in real life gives you no way near, and thats a joke. At least D will give you bang for the buck.

As for the review it self, I was irritated by the answer that Onkyo gave AR , about component is different.... Correct me if I am wrong, but the class is, Onkyo is their lowest brand, then Pio is their better and Integra is their best, right?

Its a big yawn right now, at least where I am from, the prices are insane for the AVR's , I am just anoyed by the fact we dont have anything that has evolved or revolution in terms of AVR, new/improved calibration techologies are NOT it, at least not for me.

Yes... I am desperate...

In the past - there was a clear seperation between the mass market models and the flagship models...

Both my 2008 Onkyo SR876 and my 2013 Integra DTR70.4 were rated at 140W@8ohm - both were measured in lab tests putting out more than 165W@8ohm stereo...

These were very heavy AVR's - weighing in around circa 50lbs / 25kg - most of that weight was in the large transformer and capacitors... so it could provide plenty of current to drive speakers like mine that drop down to 1.6ohm - and they did drive them well.

Current generation RZ50 and NR7100 (and siblings) are not flagship models, they weigh in at 15kg and 10kg respectively - and I have personally tested the 10kg Integra DRX3.4 - and it does not do a good job on low impedance speakers like mine.

So no, I don't believe they are the same... the biggest difference is the power supply and the power amps, although my current Integra 3.4 makes an excellent pre-pro, or hybrid AVR (external amps for the front, internal amps for surround and height) - it shows its mass market targetting in its inability to drive difficult speakers. - The RZ70 (and siblings) - shows every indication of being engineered to handle speakers like mine, I expect that when tested, it will probably put out substantially more than its "rated" power into 8 ohm stereo.

For those interested in better integration of bass, the availability of DLBC on these flagship models is also a major factor, but for me, the thing that will make me open my wallet for an upgrade, is if they provide an upgrade to DL-ART when it becomes available in October.
Right now my baby Integra 3.4 with Crown XLS2500 amps is doing a legendary job - the setup sounds great! and for a 5.1.4 setup, the combination is pretty much perfect ... However I have a feeling that DL-ART would take it another step up. (the RZ70 on its own, would merely allow me to retire the Crown amps, and simplify the setup - but I would not expect any difference in sound quality)

 

[ban25]

For those interested in better integration of bass, the availability of DLBC on these flagship models is also a major factor, but for me, the thing that will make me open my wallet for an upgrade, is if they provide an upgrade to DL-ART when it becomes available in October.
Right now my baby Integra 3.4 with Crown XLS2500 amps is doing a legendary job - the setup sounds great! and for a 5.1.4 setup, the combination is pretty much perfect ... However I have a feeling that DL-ART would take it another step up. (the RZ70 on its own, would merely allow me to retire the Crown amps, and simplify the setup - but I would not expect any difference in sound quality)

For me the game changer is Roon Ready. There are vanishingly few AVR/AVPs that sport this functionality and none from a mass market player. The only current offerings IIRC are from Storm, Trinnov, Arcam, and maybe Audiocontrol. Support for ART through an update will be very nice, but I won't be surprised if this is held back for the true flagship processors (RZ90/DRC-R1.4/etc), at least for the current generation.

 

[ArturoKiwi]

Here you go:

IMO: Pio, Onky and Int have absolutley nothing special that really separates them, between them or thier bigger/smaller sibblings imo. Just like Den and Mar. As for the above, I was not impressed, not even by the Pio. The only thing that will grab my interest, is Class-D! This Class A/AB, to me, is a joke. One pay 1000-3000 for something that has an spec of 140w, but in real life gives you no way near, and thats a joke. At least D will give you bang for the buck.

As for the review it self, I was irritated by the answer that Onkyo gave AR , about component is different.... Correct me if I am wrong, but the class is, Onkyo is their lowest brand, then Pio is their better and Integra is their best, right?

Its a big yawn right now, at least where I am from, the prices are insane for the AVR's , I am just anoyed by the fact we dont have anything that has evolved or revolution in terms of AVR, new/improved calibration techologies are NOT it, at least not for me.

Yes... I am desperate...

I understand you well, I live in Italy a RZ70 costs about 3100/3250€... A lot of money and it isn't sell buy official reseller.
The Dirac license included make it interesting, also because I already have a dual Nc400 for LR.

Sadly the new Sony avr aren't avaible in Italy, because the AZ7000 could be expensive, but I hope the AZ5000 could be affordable had has the same features.

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

Ok, I've been a bit busy so I've been just able to install it and just check the functionality. I was a bit disappointed that Onkyo didn't upgrade at all the interface which is exactly the same (layout and resolution either for the OSD and for the setup pages) of my old 2018 PR-RZ5100 and also that the fans are noticeable when they wake-up (but become less noisy with time, don't know if one gets used or they slow down themselves).
Didn't have time to test Dirac (which was my first selling point of the RZ-70), I'd have liked to try AccuEQ (which is a faster setup process) to have an apples to apples comparison with my old 5100, but looks like Onkyo has finally given up on it and it isn't present at all on the RZ-70 (on the contrary of the RZ-50 which AFAIK let's you choose between Dirac and AccuEQ), I was suspecting it ever since I got it, because there was no logo on the box (instead there's a promising Auro3D one, support to which should be included in a future firmware upgrade).
Btw, I'm using its amplification just to power the four Klipsch R-14M that I use as heigth speakers (unfortunately not listed in the "Klipsch Optimized Mode", maybe because an old model), the base layer will remain hooked to my PA-MC5501 (center, surrounds and backs) and my stereo amp (with preamp bypass function). So I'm more looking forward for an improvement from the multichannel power-amp (that will now have to drive only 5 out of 9 of its channels) and won't be able to formulate a proper judgement of the amp section of the RZ-70.

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

For me the game changer is Roon Ready. There are vanishingly few AVR/AVPs that sport this functionality and none from a mass market player. The only current offerings IIRC are from Storm, Trinnov, Arcam, and maybe Audiocontrol. Support for ART through an update will be very nice, but I won't be surprised if this is held back for the true flagship processors (RZ90/DRC-R1.4/etc), at least for the current generation.

I guess ART will remain something for very high end products like Trinnov and Storm Audio (which is the only brand who currently support it).
Btw, I saw a video from Audioholics, where they were saying that the thing is very promising but to work will need full-band speakers on every channel and lots of power driving them to produce the real-time corrections ART does.
I hope Dirac will keep developing Dirac Live for home users (even prosumers) because I guess a good DL calibration could work out better than ART with inadequate gear (that some marketing-department might force in, just to slap the logo on the sticker and box).

 

[ivo.f.doma]

Ok, I've been a bit busy so I've been just able to install it and just check the functionality. I was a bit disappointed that Onkyo didn't upgrade at all the interface which is exactly the same (layout and resolution either for the OSD and for the setup pages) of my old 2018 PR-RZ5100 and also that the fans are noticeable when they wake-up (but become less noisy with time, don't know if one gets used or they slow down themselves).
Didn't have time to test Dirac (which was my first selling point of the RZ-70), I'd have liked to try AccuEQ (which is a faster setup process) to have an apples to apples comparison with my old 5100, but looks like Onkyo has finally given up on it and it isn't present at all on the RZ-70 (on the contrary of the RZ-50 which AFAIK let's you choose between Dirac and AccuEQ), I was suspecting it ever since I got it, because there was no logo on the box (instead there's a promising Auro3D one, support to which should be included in a future firmware upgrade).
Btw, I'm using its amplification just to power the four Klipsch R-14M that I use as heigth speakers (unfortunately not listed in the "Klipsch Optimized Mode", maybe because an old model), the base layer will remain hooked to my PA-MC5501 (center, surrounds and backs) and my stereo amp (with preamp bypass function). So I'm more looking forward for an improvement from the multichannel power-amp (that will now have to drive only 5 out of 9 of its channels) and won't be able to formulate a proper judgement of the amp section of the RZ-70.

https://assets.onkyo-av.com/product-manuals/TX-RZ70_En_Manual_29404069A.pdf?v=1684871097

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

https://assets.onkyo-av.com/product-manuals/TX-RZ70_En_Manual_29404069A.pdf?v=1684871097

Thanks, why you posted the manual?

 

[ban25]

Ok, I've been a bit busy so I've been just able to install it and just check the functionality. I was a bit disappointed that Onkyo didn't upgrade at all the interface which is exactly the same (layout and resolution either for the OSD and for the setup pages) of my old 2018 PR-RZ5100 and also that the fans are noticeable when they wake-up (but become less noisy with time, don't know if one gets used or they slow down themselves).
Didn't have time to test Dirac (which was my first selling point of the RZ-70), I'd have liked to try AccuEQ (which is a faster setup process) to have an apples to apples comparison with my old 5100, but looks like Onkyo has finally given up on it and it isn't present at all on the RZ-70 (on the contrary of the RZ-50 which AFAIK let's you choose between Dirac and AccuEQ), I was suspecting it ever since I got it, because there was no logo on the box (instead there's a promising Auro3D one, support to which should be included in a future firmware upgrade).
Btw, I'm using its amplification just to power the four Klipsch R-14M that I use as heigth speakers (unfortunately not listed in the "Klipsch Optimized Mode", maybe because an old model), the base layer will remain hooked to my PA-MC5501 (center, surrounds and backs) and my stereo amp (with preamp bypass function). So I'm more looking forward for an improvement from the multichannel power-amp (that will now have to drive only 5 out of 9 of its channels) and won't be able to formulate a proper judgement of the amp section of the RZ-70.

AccuEQ is still present in the DRX-8.4. Not that it really matters when you have Dirac.

What you should see with the two top fans over the HDMI section is both fans spin up briefly (3s) on startup, and then one fan spins down to below 1000rpm and the other turns off. It'll stay like this unless it trips a thermal threshold.

 

[Martin]

No one want to say a word about the review?

What review? DrStranger posted a video fluff piece masquerading as a review. I've yet to see a real review of any of them. (TX-RZ70, VSX-LX805 or DRX-8.4) I won't even consider any of them without a real review, especially considering the poor reviews the lesser models received.

Martin

 

[ArturoKiwi]

What review? DrStranger posted a video fluff piece masquerading as a review. I've yet to see a real review of any of them. (TX-RZ70, VSX-LX805 or DRX-8.4) I won't even consider any of them without a real review, especially considering the poor reviews the lesser models received.

Martin

If you could send one of the 3 to Amirm, maybe we could have a review that satisfy you and the ASR purist

 

[ivo.f.doma]

Thanks, why you posted the manual?

Because in the manual, page 165, it says that it contains accueq.

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

I understand you well, I live in Italy a RZ70 costs about 3100/3250€... A lot of money and it isn't sell buy official reseller.
The Dirac license included make it interesting, also because I already have a dual Nc400 for LR.

Sadly the new Sony avr aren't avaible in Italy, because the AZ7000 could be expensive, but I hope the AZ5000 could be affordable had has the same features.

I bought the RZ-70 here in Italy for 2950€ (with the basic Dirac Live license). If you want more information DM me.