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Exciting news from Onkyo and Pioneer: TX-RZ70/ VSX-LX705, TX-RZ9/VSX-LX905 = Auro 3D + DLBC!

AudioScience Enthusiast

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Come October ART is available for any manufacturer that wants to integrate it... so I am hoping that we will hear some announcements soon.
CEDIA is coming up beginning of October, is it reasonable to expect PAC/Dirac to announce something before Storm's exclusivity runs out?

Although these only have a single sub, ART can leverage full range speakers - and there is the potential for remarkable performance from substantially more "minimalist" setups (eg: 5.1.4)... But I think that is most likely wishful thinking.
It will be cool to see ART available on more AVR models, especially all models that are capable of basic Dirac already. I get that DLBC needs independent sub-outs, but you're right, ART doesn't need more ports on the AVR itself.

Just curious, while I don't think the AVR needs a fast/capable chip to perform calibration because the calculations can be done by the Dirac app on the computer itself, but the ART corrections may be too computationally intensive for the AVR to "playback" if it doesn't have a powerful enough chip? Is this possible?
 

dlaloum

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CEDIA is coming up beginning of October, is it reasonable to expect PAC/Dirac to announce something before Storm's exclusivity runs out?
We can hope!
It will be cool to see ART available on more AVR models, especially all models that are capable of basic Dirac already. I get that DLBC needs independent sub-outs, but you're right, ART doesn't need more ports on the AVR itself.

Just curious, while I don't think the AVR needs a fast/capable chip to perform calibration because the calculations can be done by the Dirac app on the computer itself, but the ART corrections may be too computationally intensive for the AVR to "playback" if it doesn't have a powerful enough chip? Is this possible?
Processor power should not be a major problem.... but there can be limitations - with the StormAudio ART implementation, the more basic processor could handle only 10 support speakers, whereas the upper models could have all channels as "support".

So clearly, there are performance constraints - but they can be partly overcome by limiting the number of support speakers ....

How much CPU power would be needed for a 5 support speaker setup I wonder?
 

ivo.f.doma

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I've been listening to 2-channel music upmixing via Auro3D most of the day today and...color me impressed! Auro does an excellent job of preserving the stereo image, which is my big complaint with DSU (without Center Spread enabled). It's a bit more subdued than DSU and the surrounds are a bit quieter, which I prefer. The fact that I don't need to manually toggle Center Spread when listening to something upmixed and then remember to turn it off when I'm done is very convenient. I've configured Auro3D as the default upmixer for my 2-channel content and I'll see if I still like it after a week or so. Right now, if I were to rank upmixers, it would be:

1. Auro3D
2. Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU) with Center Spread
3. DTS Neural:X (Really, Dead Last)
How do you position the front upper speakers when using the Auro3D upmixer? As prescribed by Auro, i.e. the front top and above the front LRs, or as prescribed by Atmos, i.e. in the ceiling and approx. 30 degrees in front of the main listening position?
I'm in the process of setting up the top layer of 4 speakers and I don't know where to mount them so that they are good for both Atmos and Auro.
Well thank you.
 

ban25

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How do you position the front upper speakers when using the Auro3D upmixer? As prescribed by Auro, i.e. the front top and above the front LRs, or as prescribed by Atmos, i.e. in the ceiling and approx. 30 degrees in front of the main listening position?
I'm in the process of setting up the top layer of 4 speakers and I don't know where to mount them so that they are good for both Atmos and Auro.
Well thank you.
Auro recommends 30 degrees for the heights and 90 degrees overhead the main listening position. I don't have an actual Auro3D layout though.
 

ban25

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There are settings to adjust the preset as well as the "strength" of the Auro-Matic upscaler. I haven't played with any of these yet to see what they do, however.

Screenshot 2023-09-08 at 1.18.02 PM.png
 

Theetjuh

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Sancus

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Yes, but the way ART works, the critical thing is how many speakers have range below 150Hz... it doesn't care whether they are subs or whether they are Full Range speakers.

So a decent set of FR Mains, perhaps backed up with a pair for FR surrounds, might well make subs redundant.

I don't see how replacing subs with speakers that have less output would help. And that's what you're doing in pretty much every case of a "full range" speaker. Even something like the Perlisten S7T cannot keep up with a single decent 15" sub. ART wants more output capability than a normal setup, not less.

As for whether towers save space or not, it depends, it's certainly not guaranteed.
 

dlaloum

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I don't see how replacing subs with speakers that have less output would help. And that's what you're doing in pretty much every case of a "full range" speaker. Even something like the Perlisten S7T cannot keep up with a single decent 15" sub. ART wants more output capability than a normal setup, not less.

As for whether towers save space or not, it depends, it's certainly not guaranteed.
Depends how much output you want / need.

In terms of corrective effect, the output need only by relatively low to achieve the desired correction.

Total output, well 4 full range speakers with each adding its 3db to the total should be able to match most subs...

My full rangers have 10" woofers, and do 24hz @ -3db

They have a slow roll-off so I have bass in the subsonic range, and the bass is louder than I need.

So I really don't see what the big deal is with subs.
If it comes down to another loudness war, I'm just not interested, it is irrelevant to me.
 

jhwalker

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Depends how much output you want / need.

In terms of corrective effect, the output need only by relatively low to achieve the desired correction.

Total output, well 4 full range speakers with each adding its 3db to the total should be able to match most subs...

My full rangers have 10" woofers, and do 24hz @ -3db

They have a slow roll-off so I have bass in the subsonic range, and the bass is louder than I need.

So I really don't see what the big deal is with subs.
If it comes down to another loudness war, I'm just not interested, it is irrelevant to me.
I would like to feel the same, but ...

My speakers also are -3db at 24Hz, but with dual subwoofers the -3db point is at 12Hz; i.e., a full octave lower. Seldom used in music, surely, but I also use my system for TV / movies, and that "extra" octave definitely gets a workout.

Much as I'd like to do without, I've been unable to do so since the mid-90s or so :/
 

dlaloum

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I would like to feel the same, but ...

My speakers also are -3db at 24Hz, but with dual subwoofers the -3db point is at 12Hz; i.e., a full octave lower. Seldom used in music, surely, but I also use my system for TV / movies, and that "extra" octave definitely gets a workout.

Much as I'd like to do without, I've been unable to do so since the mid-90s or so :/
I do have a sub - which receives the LFE channel - and I run my mains in "double bass" mode...

Still I am curious about ART.
 

Theetjuh

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I don't think it will replace subs because of ART, but it will surely help.
From what I see the common problem areas aren't in the sub 20Hz range but primarily between 40 and 100Hz.

If ART can help smooth that out, it should be a win-win right?
 

dlaloum

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Always worth reminding people that the Dolby Theatre spec only require bass performance down to 32Hz.....
 

Dj7675

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Always worth reminding people that the Dolby Theatre spec only require bass performance down to 32Hz.....
That would seem to make sense due to room size. Getting output down to 20hz at 115dB would seem to be quite difficult. THX Reference level is 115dB at 20hz (Peak). No way I would be satisfied in a home theater setting at 32hz.
 

Rottmannash

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dlaloum

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@Flak since you are still around, would my LX805 get DL-ART?

I would like to return my LX805 while I still can if it will not get DL-ART.
I don't believe it is up to Dirac... it is up to Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer to do the base integration.... and previous comments from Dirac were that if it supports DLBC it can support DLART...
 

Flak

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@Flak since you are still around, would my LX805 get DL-ART?

I would like to return my LX805 while I still can if it will not get DL-ART.
Thanks for your interest in Active Room Treatment but, as mentioned by @dlaloum, this a question for Pioneer to answer...
 

soerenssen

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Audio & Vision measured the LX805:

2 channels:
193 Watt / 6 Ohm / 1 kHz Sinus
267 Watt / 4 Ohm / 1 kHz Sinus

5 channels:
161 Watt / 6 Ohm / 1 kHz Sinus
189 Watt / 4 Ohm / 1 kHz Sinus

7 channels:
134 Watt / 6 Ohm / 1 kHz Sinus
 
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