Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[SmokedBurger]

Impossible to tell from that graph alone.

You can try doing nearfield, gated measurements of each speaker, then overlaying the two graphs to show unit variation.

For this, use Room EQ Wizard to export a measurement sweep as .WAV, then play it back on the Elacs (each speaker separately) and record the result with your iPhone.

Go to REW->Import->Import Sweep recording to load the measurement into REW, then apply gating according the the guide below to show the speaker's response sans room acoustics.

The closer the iPhone's mic is to the tweeter, the better the result.
Naturally, microphone distance and position must be matched as best as possible between the two speakers, for meaningful results.

Loudspeaker measurements

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

No you don't need that special miniDSP mic to do this. The iPhone works just fine.

Thanks! Will try it out soon

 

[Karmacoma]

So….these speakers made me shat my pants when I got them (best blind buy ever, thanks asr), I paired it with an elac sub.
That was 4 years back. I’m looking for the next bug thing that can make me feel the same way again. Would a neumann kh120 ii be a worthy upgrade? I know the price difference between them is bonkers but that’s how good I think these elacs are. I’d probably go demo the neumanns if it’s worth the trip.

The KH 120 II got the best price/performance ratio on the market, considering you don't need an amp. Stellar sound, you might want to add a sub though, and that's pricey, but you'd reach audiophile heaven. Definitely a noticeable upgrade from the Dbr's. Better suited for small rooms regarding their dispersion, but that's also a question of taste.

 

[DMill]

The KH 120 II got the best price/performance ratio on the market, considering you don't need an amp. Stellar sound, you might want to add a sub though, and that's pricey, but you'd reach audiophile heaven. Definitely a noticeable upgrade from the Dbr's. Better suited for small rooms regarding their dispersion, but that's also a question of taste.

Did you test them both A/B in room?

 

[Karmacoma]

Did you test them both A/B in room?

Of course, and under the scrutiny of 2 bailiffs

 

[dasherzx]

The KH 120 II got the best price/performance ratio on the market, considering you don't need an amp. Stellar sound, you might want to add a sub though, and that's pricey, but you'd reach audiophile heaven. Definitely a noticeable upgrade from the Dbr's. Better suited for small rooms regarding their dispersion, but that's also a question of taste.

I went for the kh150 and I can say its definitely noticeable due to the bass extension. tonally they sound similar, further testament that the dbr62 is a speaker done right (imo) . I have an elac sub lying around unused for awhile that i plan to hook up to the dbrs and see how it goes in an AB comparison. Pretty sure ill be satisfied anyway.

 

[dasherzx]

Did you test them both A/B in room?

The bass does go lower which is kinda noticeable, I can tell by the rumble. I wouldnt be confident for a blind comparison on the same loudness and frequency range otherwise xD

 

[SmokedBurger]

Impossible to tell from that graph alone.

You can try doing nearfield, gated measurements of each speaker, then overlaying the two graphs to show unit variation.

Hello! I wasnt able to do a gated comparison but I did compare both left and right channels with the microphon between the tweeter and woofer at around a few cm away, and they are matched... I also got an opportunity to try out the software on my other speaker, an ancient cerwin vega xd4 powered speakers and tried it on those and surprisingly the treble peak is also there?! I assume this might be an issue with the setup or the microphone instead of the speakers because I swear these were the blandest speakers I have ever owned, also this was measured on a different room, a living room. on another hand, I mistakenly measured the Cerwin Vega's on a wrong height and wow, that is one amazing measurement except for the room resonance

 

[staticV3]

Hello! I wasnt able to do a gated comparison

How did you apply gating in HouseCurve? I don't think it supports that.

 

[wyup]

The KH 120 II got the best price/performance ratio on the market, considering you don't need an amp. Stellar sound, you might want to add a sub though, and that's pricey, but you'd reach audiophile heaven. Definitely a noticeable upgrade from the Dbr's. Better suited for small rooms regarding their dispersion, but that's also a question of taste.

I think the KH 120 II being near field monitor speakers are a completely different concept. These are meant for using in front of them in a typical pc setup and small room for mixing, not for room filling. The Elacs are designed for different dispersion than a monitor speaker.
Additionally you need some sort of accurate volume control, in the form of a preamplifier. A dac with digital volume and a remote doesn't cut it.
Besides the long interconnect and power cables that ruin the esthetics and setup. These monitors are small and don't look good in a living room.

 

[Karmacoma]

I think the KH 120 II being near field monitor speakers are a completely different concept. These are meant for using in front of them in a typical pc setup and small room for mixing, not for room filling. The Elacs are designed for different dispersion than a monitor speaker.
Additionally you need some sort of accurate volume control, in the form of a preamplifier. A dac with digital volume and a remote doesn't cut it.
Besides the long interconnect and power cables that ruin the esthetics and setup. These monitors are small and don't look good in a living room.

Almost everything you're saying is wrong, except for the small room part, which i mentioned, and the aesthetics, which is very personal. I suggest you have a look at Neumann's specs on their site. I won't develop further it's not the place to do so.

 

[TonyJZX]

i personally have issues with a comparison of a 6" home speaker where you have to provide your own amp with an active 5.5" meant for nearfield

literally apples to oranges

i could very well believe that the DBR62 works well with a $1k amp vs. a $100 amp

 

[wyup]

Almost everything you're saying is wrong, except for the small room part, which i mentioned, and the aesthetics, which is very personal. I suggest you have a look at Neumann's specs on their site. I won't develop further it's not the place to do so.

From Neumann's KH 120 II owner's manual:
1) "Neumann’s two-way loudspeaker systems are designed for use as near
field monitors" Near field monitors is for sitting in front and close to them, not for a living room. This is the most important one.
2) "Recommended listening distance for KH 120 II: 1 .0 m – 2 .0 m" Not recommended for most living room positions. I listen at 3 meters.
3) "Avoid positioning the loudspeaker at a distance (dwall) of 0 .8 to 1 .75 m from the wall behind
the loudspeaker" Near field monitors are meant to place into the room, best rectangular, and on supports. Unless you stick it to the wall, 1.75m deep is too much for normal loudspeakers.
4) Near field monitors are angled at the listening position, at the precise center. According to plot images:
Horizontal Directivity: KH120II: -6db at 20º DBR62: -4db at 20º
Vertical directivity: KH120II: -3db at 20º DBR62: -4db at 20º on average

These are facts. Do you think you can run power cables with speakers 2-3 meters split-apart? Are you willing to power both of them up and off with switches at the back?
The sound monitors are not meant to fill a living room with soundstage, it's sound directed at your ears for mixing and dead-center image.

 

[Karmacoma]

From Neumann's KH 120 II owner's manual:
1) "Neumann’s two-way loudspeaker systems are designed for use as near
field monitors" Near field monitors is for sitting in front and close to them, not for a living room. This is the most important one.
2) "Recommended listening distance for KH 120 II: 1 .0 m – 2 .0 m" Not recommended for most living room positions. I listen at 3 meters.
3) "Avoid positioning the loudspeaker at a distance (dwall) of 0 .8 to 1 .75 m from the wall behind
the loudspeaker" Near field monitors are meant to place into the room, best rectangular, and on supports. Unless you stick it to the wall, 1.75m deep is too much for normal loudspeakers.
4) Near field monitors are angled at the listening position, at the precise center. According to plot images:
Horizontal Directivity: KH120II: -6db at 20º DBR62: -4db at 20º
Vertical directivity: KH120II: -3db at 20º DBR62: -4db at 20º on average

These are facts. Do you think you can run power cables with speakers 2-3 meters split-apart? Are you willing to power both of them up and off with switches at the back?
The sound monitors are not meant to fill a living room with soundstage, it's sound directed at your ears for mixing and dead-center image.

I knew I'd trigger you. You can read for sure, but you don't seem to understand what you're reading. Yes 2 power chords. Unbearable. Fact.

 

[SmokedBurger]

How did you apply gating in HouseCurve? I don't think it supports that.

Yeah i wasn’t able to do gating on it, only channel balance testing. It seems i need to find calibration files for the iphone microphone? But it seems that the iphone microphone ateast on my unit has a bias on high frequency

 

[KU713]

I still can't figure out why, despite the rather poor results of all measurements, this speaker received such an above-standard award. Didn't Mr. Amirm just want to please Mr. Jones?

 

[wyup]

It's a remarkable and powerful speaker with an even handed response. Recently ABA described Elac sound as "powerful bass, full midrange and a bit recessed up top". I think it sums up pretty well.
Amir probably tested it with a powerful amplifier, heard little distortion at high volumes and just liked the sound, price is appropiate and it passed the test.
I think it has some magic specially at the midrange and with good equipment it can shine, but it needs some investment, and it may not be appreciated by everybody. It was called the LS50 killer by some reviewer, even if they couldn't be more different.

 

[KU713]

Basically, I'm not talking about strong bass, but overall balance and a nice tonality, especially when listening quite quietly. So do you recommend me to try it?

 

[Timcognito]

Didn't Mr. Amirm just want to please Mr. Jones?

I don't think so, he did not recommend most of the Elac's he tested. 2 yes and 4 no recommendations.

 

[Roland68]

I still can't figure out why, despite the rather poor results of all measurements, this speaker received such an above-standard award. Didn't Mr. Amirm just want to please Mr. Jones?

What exactly do you mean by "the rather poor results of all measurements"? Do you know of any speakers with better measurement values in this price range?
I bought the speaker because of the hype in the forum and elsewhere on the Internet, simply because I was curious, but I didn't expect anything special. My other speakers are in the 4-5 digit range.
But I was surprised and I've heard enough much more expensive speakers that were subjectively worse.

Two things are important.
Give this speaker a stable stand with little damping and an amplifier with enough power. A Sabaj A30a or a Yamaha A-S1000 or A-S700/701 are quite good, but more can be used. A NAD 2200, for example, also works well.
If you save too much on these two points, you're wasting a lot of potential.

I find it very unfortunate that this speaker with the 16-inch chassis is not available as a floor-standing speaker. Unfortunately, the DFR52 can't keep up with the DBR62 at all

 

[wyup]

Basically, I'm not talking about strong bass, but overall balance and a nice tonality, especially when listening quite quietly. So do you recommend me to try it?

Absolutely. It sounds well at low volumes. Hi-hats may be a bit tamed. You learn to dig top end with your ear. When you turn up the volume, sound is natural and not fatiguing. It is like in a classical auditorium, high frequencies are there, just not showy.
For tv it works well aswell.
The star of the show is midrange grit. I have missed it in more expensive speakers. For example the new Wharfedale Super Dentons. They have better bass and more detailed highs. But it doesn't open up like the DBR62 nor have the same midrange.
To me only the Lintons can improve the DBR62 with a similar sound.