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Does anyone else prefer a dipped midrange?

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D

Digby

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My own conclusion after investigating this with my HYBRID dsp DIY loudspeaker and Genelec 8340 is that if the loudspeaker has good directivity, a flat frequency response are gonna be prefered , at least by me and some friends . Even in a stereo setup.
I think the problem is you (maybe ASR generally?....shots fired, BTW :p) are at risk of making a god out of the source material, when the source material is itself a gross distortion of live sound. If you look at points 1 & 2 from my OP, they are objective facts, not my preference. Microphones are unnaturally placed and receiving signals in a way different from our ears, and studios are 9 times out of 10, much more soundproofed than a home living room, so what sounds right in a studio may not in a typical home. These are just two distortions I can bring to mind, likely there are others.

TL;DR If a Stradivarius or Guaneri sounded the way it is reproduced by anechoically flat speakers, then you'd have people running from the concert hall. This may be no fault of the speakers themselves, but...(and also in response to this post by abdo123)
It's just that these issues should be sorted out in the production stage, you can't expect the end user to play DJ in their free time.
we have to deal with things as they are, not as they would be in a perfect world.
 
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Thomas_A

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Experiment with a center and good downmix to three-channel audio.
 

goat76

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The tube traps geometry enable them to affect much lower frequencies than flat panels would.
That depends on the thickness of the panel and the distance between the panel and the wall. I think you can get an even better result with a panel.
 

MRC01

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Here's the measured impact of 22" diameter tube traps in my room, floor to ceiling height, using 1.5" thick fiberglass. Red before, blue after (obviously). The reason I built tube traps instead of panels was to make them more effective at low frequencies where the room needed it most. Can panels be that effective?
1658695651175.png
 

Multicore

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Back in the day when I had gear with a loudness switch, I would often use it. Not always. I think that's all the evidence I have relevant to your question.

But I always use a heavy V eq on electric guitar amps and I prefer pickups with that coloration too. That, however, is a highly non-linear system and perhaps I like the mid cut to make space for the fat overdriven bass and sparkly overtones that give me so much joy.
 

goat76

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Here's the measured impact of 22" diameter tube traps in my room, floor to ceiling height, using 1.5" thick fiberglass. Red before, blue after (obviously). The reason I built tube traps instead of panels was to make them more effective at low frequencies where the room needed it most. Can panels be that effective?
View attachment 220277
If it’s mostly the bass problem around 100 Hz you want to tackle, then maybe panels placed over the corners as “corner bass traps” can be even more effective than your tube traps?

You have probably seen this before... You can use this Room Mode Calculator to see where in your room the bass build-up occurs.
https://trikustik.at/raummoden-rechner/
The 3D room in that web based program will show you exactly where the room modes are.

Sorry for the OT stuff. :)
 

MRC01

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If it’s mostly the bass problem around 100 Hz you want to tackle, then maybe panels placed over the corners as “corner bass traps” can be even more effective than your tube traps?

You have probably seen this before... You can use this Room Mode Calculator to see where in your room the bass build-up occurs.
https://trikustik.at/raummoden-rechner/
The 3D room in that web based program will show you exactly where the room modes are.

Sorry for the OT stuff. :)
The biggest problem was the room's bass suckout from 30 to 90 Hz. The tube traps mostly fixed that. They only took a nibble out of the 100 Hz bump. Later, I added RealTraps MegaTraps in the corners to weaken that 100 Hz bump another few dB. Then I applied a bit of parametric EQ (DSP via Behringer DEQ2496) to flatten it further.

Anyway, the point is that tube traps really work! And you can save thousands of $$ making them yourself, especially in the large sizes needed to be effective. Flipping them with reflective sides toward the walls didn't change anything measurable in that graph, but it did perceptually smooth the midrange and obviate the need for the gentle mid dip that I was using.
 

DVDdoug

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A few possibilities...

- A smiley face EQ often sounds "more impressive", especially as a first impression.

- Most speakers have a some high & low rolloff and a mid-dip could make it more flat.

- Most of us listen at less than "realistic" levels so the Equal Loudness Curves make it sound like we've turned-down the bass. (Multicore mentioned the old "loudness" switches, which would automatically turn-up the bass as the volume control is turned-down.) The equal loudness curves also show that you may not hear the high-frequency details when listening at reduced volume.
 

Vacceo

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I think the problem is you (maybe ASR generally?....shots fired, BTW :p) are at risk of making a god out of the source material, when the source material is itself a gross distortion of live sound. If you look at points 1 & 2 from my OP, they are objective facts, not my preference. Microphones are unnaturally placed and receiving signals in a way different from our ears, and studios are 9 times out of 10, much more soundproofed than a home living room, so what sounds right in a studio may not in a typical home. These are just two distortions I can bring to mind, likely there are others.

TL;DR If a Stradivarius or Guaneri sounded the way it is reproduced by anechoically flat speakers, then you'd have people running from the concert hall. This may be no fault of the speakers themselves, but...(and also in response to this post by abdo123)

we have to deal with things as they are, not as they would be in a perfect world.
Thing is, sometimes the live sound is terrible and I'd rather have a good recorded reproduction.

Venom in record is, in record terms, terrible; but live is far worse! I love what they play, but in terms of recording quality, well, a monkey with a microphone jumping around the studio will do. Better job.

That is also true for other records I absolutely love like Mayhem's Deathcrush, Hellhammer's Apocaliptic Raids or Sarcófago's Laws of Scourge.
 

Chromatischism

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Back in the day when I had gear with a loudness switch, I would often use it. Not always. I think that's all the evidence I have relevant to your question.

But I always use a heavy V eq on electric guitar amps and I prefer pickups with that coloration too. That, however, is a highly non-linear system and perhaps I like the mid cut to make space for the fat overdriven bass and sparkly overtones that give me so much joy.
Definitely, but that would be captured in any recording and you wouldn't want speakers doubling up the effect with their own V curve.
 

ZolaIII

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A few possibilities...

- A smiley face EQ often sounds "more impressive", especially as a first impression.

- Most speakers have a some high & low rolloff and a mid-dip could make it more flat.

- Most of us listen at less than "realistic" levels so the Equal Loudness Curves make it sound like we've turned-down the bass. (Multicore mentioned the old "loudness" switches, which would automatically turn-up the bass as the volume control is turned-down.) The equal loudness curves also show that you may not hear the high-frequency details when listening at reduced volume.
FR060004-TONE.gif
Old bass/treble equal loudness normalization can be manually used to fix such problems. Old NS10M will sound fantastic at 86~87 dB LPS (as mesured @ 1W into 8 Ohm's) with bass +2 and treble - 4 for example. It's important to understand the cross point at 750 Hz.
 
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