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Denon channel level adjust

theonline3333

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I have a Denon s760h with a 5.0.2 system. Is the channel level adjust from the options button on the same scale as the volume buttons? Meaning if I my main AVR volume is set to 40db if I set the channel level adjust for the center speaker to +5db will that one speaker be basically at a 45db volume setting? I am just trying to figure out the scale so I know how high an adjustment is reasonable.

I just want to know if it is 1 for 1, meaning a +1 on channel level adjust is same as +1 on main volume button. I have my center and atmos speakers at +5db and all other speakers at 0 in channel level adjust(center is higher to help with voices in tv/movies and atmos is higher because I think they are too subtle on regular setting).

If it is not the same scale, how different is it?
 
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LTig

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dB without a reference is just a relation, here between 2 different volume levels. Insofar +1 on channel adjust should be the same ans on the volume button.
 
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theonline3333

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dB without a reference is just a relation, here between 2 different volume levels. Insofar +1 on channel adjust should be the same ans on the volume button.
Thanks. So it sounds like it is around the same. I was wanting to make sure that +5db on channel level adjust for center and atmos was reasonable, sounds like it is.
 

AdamG247

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I have a Denon s760h with a 5.0.2 system. Is the channel level adjust from the options button on the same scale as the volume buttons? Meaning if I my main AVR volume is set to 40db if I set the channel level adjust for the center speaker to +5db will that one speaker be basically at a 45db volume setting? I am just trying to figure out the scale so I know how high an adjustment is reasonable.

I just want to know if it is 1 for 1, meaning a +1 on channel level adjust is same as +1 on main volume button. I have my center and atmos speakers at +5db and all other speakers at 0 in channel level adjust(center is higher to help with voices in tv/movies and atmos is higher because I think they are too subtle on regular setting).

If it is not the same scale, how different is it?
Once you set a trim like this. That speaker will remain +5 at all volume levels. You can use this to manually make the center channel louder than the rest for instance. It will remain at this boosted or lowered level as compared to all other channel levels and will remain at this level for all main volume levels.
 
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theonline3333

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Once you set a trim like this. That speaker will remain +5 at all volume levels. You can use this to manually make the center channel louder than the rest for instance. It will remain at this boosted or lowered level as compared to all other channel levels and will remain at this level for all main volume levels.
Thank you. Is +5db in channel level adjust reasonable? Does anyone do higher?
 

AdamG247

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Thank you. Is +5db in channel level adjust reasonable? Does anyone do higher?
Yeah +5 is fine. The thing to keep in mind is if you ever like to ramp the MV (Master Volume) real high. Remember whatever MV you set this one channel will be boost 5 db above that. So, if you cranked the MV to say. Zero which is Reference level. The boosted channel will be +5 dbs louder and could potentially cause clipping of the AVR amp. So just keep that in mind and your fine. I run my center at +2 db. You might want to read up on what a db is and how this measurement works in practice with regards to amp power. At +5 db you are essentially doubling the power going to your center channel. As long as you keep the MV below say -10 which should be ear bleeding loud you should be fine.
 
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theonline3333

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Yeah +5 is fine. The thing to keep in mind is if you ever like to ramp the MV (Master Volume) real high. Remember whatever MV you set this one channel will be boost 5 db above that. So, if you cranked the MV to say. Zero which is Reference level. The boosted channel will be +5 dbs louder and could potentially cause clipping of the AVR amp. So just keep that in mind and your fine. I run my center at +2 db. You might want to read up on what a db is and how this measurement works in practice with regards to amp power. At +5 db you are essentially doubling the power going to your center channel. As long as you keep the MV below say -10 which should be ear bleeding loud you should be fine.
Thank you. That sounds good then. I have seen people talk about volume being at 0 or -10 which does not make sense to me. My volume is at like 40 on the avr.
 

AdamG247

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Thank you. That sounds good then. I have seen people talk about volume being at 0 or -10 which does not make sense to me. My volume is at like 40 on the avr.
Yeah you’re using a different scale. You have a Denon right? Open Setup, then go to Audio, then go to Volume, then go to Scale and Change it from 0-98 to -79.5 bB to -18.0 dB. Then It will all make sense. Just remember 0 db is Reference Volume level. Don’t go over that. And if I may suggest you google what reference volume is. This standard is set for Movie theaters. It’s a standard that most movie sound engineers mix to so that the relative volume of the movie can be set the same in every Theater. Reference is -0 dB. But in a small home setting this level is normal far too loud for the small room size as compared to a large Movie Theater. Lots to learn and enjoy the journey. Take small bites and enjoy the new knowledge. ;)

Just for comparison I rarely go above-20 dB at home.
 

DeLub

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If you went through the Audyssey setup, all channels will be calibrated to play a -30dBFS pink noise signal at 75dB when your MV is set to 0dB. The channel offsets are the corrections that are needed to reach that level. That explains the negative values (in my setup most channels have negative values as well).

This means that if you want to have your center play 5dB louder than the other channels, you cannot set it to just +5dB, but rather you’ll have to add 5dB to that calculated value.
 
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theonline3333

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Thanks for the feedback. I think I understand it a little more now. I changed my scale to that other one and now my regular listening volume is around -36db or so. I do not really like that scale so I think I will turn it back to the regular 1-98 or so one. So if -35db on that one scale is 45 on the regular scale I basically need to make sure I do not go over like 80 on the regular scale it seems from what you are saying. That will not be a problem at all the loudest I have turned it so far is like 55 or 60 and that is real rare, most of the time it is between 40 and 50.

I have my center at +3db now and atmos at +4db in channel level offset. Everything else is at 0.
 
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theonline3333

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I found my audyssey level settings on the denon. For some reason it had set my center speaker to -5db, front L and R are at -1.5db, surrounds at -1db, atmos at +5db.

I changed the center from -5db to -1db to put it a little higher than the L and R. Does that seem reasonable? Should I change it to 0? Anything else in those channel levels seem off?
 

DeLub

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That’s impossible to tell from here. The aim of those values is that all channels sound equally loud at the listening position. In my case Audyssey did a pretty decent job in determining the correct values. I would assume it did in your case as well.

By increasing the level with 4dB, assuming the measurement was correct, the effect should be that the center level plays 4dB louder than the L and R channels. (That the offsets are 0.5dB difference is of no significance, it just means that your C channel played louder in the first place. Maybe it is closer? Or a different speaker type?)
 
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theonline3333

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Thanks. I think I will just have to play around with it and see what sounds good to me. I just do not know much about this stuff and do not want to risk damaging something. Someone had said that doing the channel level adjust to +5db was like doubling the amount of power going to the speaker and that worried me.

Anyway I have stopped using the channel level adjust for the center now(I still have atmos at +4db in that setting). I now have the center at 0 in channel level adjust. In the main speaker level settings it is at -1db now instead of -5db like it was before. It is about a foot closer to me than the L and R. It is a emotiva c1+ and the L and R are emotiva T0+ towers. 5.0.2 system with no sub.
 

SKBubba

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Just for comparison I rarely go above-20 dB at home.

You can also set a limit. I have it set to -10, mainly for protection if somebody sits on a remote volume control. I rarely play louder than about -24, though, and only for very brief periods. Usually around -40 or -38 for moderately loud listening, or -50 for "normal" background listening.
 

AdamG247

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Thanks. I think I will just have to play around with it and see what sounds good to me. I just do not know much about this stuff and do not want to risk damaging something. Someone had said that doing the channel level adjust to +5db was like doubling the amount of power going to the speaker and that worried me.

Anyway I have stopped using the channel level adjust for the center now(I still have atmos at +4db in that setting). I now have the center at 0 in channel level adjust. In the main speaker level settings it is at -1db now instead of -5db like it was before. It is about a foot closer to me than the L and R. It is a emotiva c1+ and the L and R are emotiva T0+ towers. 5.0.2 system with no sub.
IIRC, You prefer the Absolute Scale of 0-98. So in this scale, Reference will be around 80 absolute volume level. If you stay below that volume level you should be good. I think that is what you want to know. However, I want to stress that you should let your ears tell you what is maximum comfortable levels and if the sound starts to become harsh or unpleasant you are probably hitting if not exceeding your speakers power handling capacity or the AVR Amp is clipping and/or being driven to distortion. So if the sound becomes unpleasant, scratchy, harsh, something in the Audio chain is being overdriven and can in rare cases cause damage to your equipment and/or ears/hearing. Good luck and keep reading. The journey to knowledge about Audio Science never ends…
 

peng

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Thanks. I think I will just have to play around with it and see what sounds good to me. I just do not know much about this stuff and do not want to risk damaging something. Someone had said that doing the channel level adjust to +5db was like doubling the amount of power going to the speaker and that worried me.

+5 dB is more than double, it is about 3.16 times. You won't be sending much power to the speakers most of the time, but it could be a lot during peaks depending on how high the signal peaks get. Since your volume is normally at 40, that is -32 on the relative scale, I highly doubt you have to worry about sending too much power to your speakers. My educated guess (bass on 4 ohm speakers) is that your AVR probably output about 0.1 to 0.2 W average most of the time so to allow for the 20 dB peaks in some movies, it would be between 10 to 20 W.

+3 = 2X
+4 = 2.5X
+5 = 3.16X
+6 = 4X

Edit:
+10 = 10X
+20 = 100X
+30 = 1000X
-20 = 0.01X
-30 = 0.001X

With a +5 dB increase, it would increase to 31.6 to 63.2 W, still well within the AVR-S760H's output limit. It is even better because you are not adjusting from 0 to +5, but from -5 to 0. Based on the info you provided, you must be sitting quite close to those Emo speakers and you don't listen too loud either. I don't know why you feel like changing the level from that set by Audyssey. To me, if you doubt the results, you should probably check it manually with a spl meter, or re-run Audyssey to make sure you do it right, such as making sure the room is very quiet, use at least 5 or 6 mic positions and follow instructions to the letter. After that, if you want the center channel to sound louder so that you can hear the dialog more easily, just increase the level for the center but leave the other channels alone.
 
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theonline3333

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Thanks everyone. I appreciate the feedback and recommendations. I do no have a lot of experience with audio stuff. I just like it to be loud enough to hear well and for the level of bass I can get without a sub to be as enjoyable as possible without worrying too much about upsetting neighbors. I appreciate the attention to detail to suggest a SPL meter or calibrations etc. but I just am not that worried about it. I just wanted to make sure I was not risking damaging my equipment.

The reason I am making adjustments is because I do not really enjoy Dynamic Volume as much but with it off sometimes to have the volume where I can hear voices then when bass comes from loud parts of the movie it is just really loud and sometimes it is hard to hear voices even with dialogue enhancer on medium. So then I read people increase level of center. Well in the settings audyssey had my center at -5db which was way below the other speakers and makes sense why I was not hearing voices as well. Since turning the center up to just -1db in those levels(.5 higher than L and R was set) I feel like things are quite a bit better already. I know a lot of purists out there may not like messing with settings but all I really care about is does it sound good to me and is it loud enough to hear without having to babysit the remote turning volume up and down all the time... without using Dynamic volume... DV fixes a lot of that but it is a lot less enjoyable to me as it feels less engaging with a lot less bass even on light.

It sounds like I am not risking the equipment even with these adjustments at my regular listening volume unless I try going way higher to around 80 or so which is not even remotely a possibility as 55 is about the loudest I have had it so far and most of the time it is at like 40-45.
 
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Chromatischism

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The reason I am making adjustments is because I do not really enjoy Dynamic Volume as much but with it off sometimes to have the volume where I can hear voices then when bass comes from loud parts of the movie it is just really loud and sometimes it is hard to hear voices even with dialogue enhancer on medium. So then I read people increase level of center. Well in the settings audyssey had my center at -5db which was way below the other speakers and makes sense why I was not hearing voices as well.
That's actually not what that means. Others already explained, but I will try also.

The speakers are adjusted by Audyssey to all be the same loudness. To get there, some speakers may see +, and some may see -. But they all end up at the same loudness. Looking at the adjustments tells you nothing about how loud they are: they are in fact set to produce 75 dB at -30 MV, 85 dB at -20 MV, 95 dB and -10 MV, and 105 dB at -0 MV.

I personally am not a fan of raising the center level. I find it distracting because it makes that speaker stand out over the others. If the front 3 don't blend together I am not immersed in the movie. That is because far more than just voices come from that speaker. Dynamic Volume set to its lowest level can solve dynamic range issues without many negative effects. It was made for people who listen at lower levels, which is exactly how your system is being used. Since most movies are mixed to listen at 85 dB +/-, the dynamic swings are going to put the quiet parts of movies into "too quiet" territory for you.

For comparison, my movie listening level is -20. The quiet parts are right where they should be, the system gets just as loud as I prefer, and I rarely have to touch the remote.

If I were to set up a quieter listening mode, I would probably do -30 to -40 and use DV.

Note that there is a Dialogue Enhancer you may wish to try: https://manuals.denon.com/AVRX7200WA/NA/EN/WBSPSYnqlrpqii.php
 
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theonline3333

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Thanks for the explanation but I am happy with it now. I do not really need to know how it works just that it is working. Dynamic volume does help with voices but the bass it takes away makes it not worth it for me even on the light setting. I already use dialogue enhancer on medium. I am just going to play with the levels until I have it sounding like I want. Thanks again everyone.
 

peng

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Thanks for the explanation but I am happy with it now. I do not really need to know how it works just that it is working. Dynamic volume does help with voices but the bass it takes away makes it not worth it for me even on the light setting. I already use dialogue enhancer on medium. I am just going to play with the levels until I have it sounding like I want. Thanks again everyone.

I think now we understand your concern is about whether raising the center channel by as much as +5 would increase the chance of damaging the speaker. The answer is, there should be no issue because of your low listening level, and based on the other information you have provided.

On the question of preference, have you tried using both dynamic EQ and dynamic volume at the same time? You already know DV has adjustments, and DEQ has different offsets to choose from, so you may be able to find the right combination for you preference. If not, then your fall back is to go with the level settings that you have already found and like. The reason I am suggesting you try the other way, that is, to use DV and DEQ together is that if it works too, then it is better in the sense that those too features are tie to the "volume" such that it would self adjust as you change the volume. If you touch the volume then it is a moot point.
 
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