Debating Denon 3800h, 4700h, and Onkyo RZ50...thoughts?

[GurvanBHC]

Okay, just want to be sure... Without DLBC, imo, there isn't much reasons to bother with DL, because XT32 SubEQ HT can do a good job with the $20 app and the free Ratbuddyssey.

XT32 work has good as DLBC? Did you see the Waterfall measurement with DLBC from Dirac? Pretty good reduction on time domain. Can you share some measurement with XT32 if you have one? I never seen a waterfall comparaison with and without XT32...

 

[ban25]

XT32 work has good as DLBC? Did you see the Waterfall measurement with DLBC from Dirac? Pretty good reduction on time domain. Can you share some measurement with XT32 if you have one? I never seen a waterfall comparaison with and without XT32...

I think what peng is saying is that XT32 is as good as or better than Dirac Live alone, without DLBC. DL + DLBC > Audyssey XT32. I would agree with that assessment, particularly with MultEQ-X ($200 Windows app). Dirac support won't become interesting for me until DLBC or ART becomes available, and since Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer don't integrate those features, they all rank below the D+M receivers with XT32 in my book.

 

[GurvanBHC]

I think what peng is saying is that XT32 is as good as or better than Dirac Live alone, without DLBC. DL + DLBC > Audyssey XT32. I would agree with that assessment, particularly with MultEQ-X ($200 Windows app). Dirac support won't become interesting for me until DLBC or ART becomes available, and since Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer don't integrate those features, they all rank below the D+M receivers with XT32 in my book.

Oh ok. Yes i think Dirac Live ART will be a game changer. On the Dirac Live website, we can see the exceptional measurements of the reduction of RT60 with ART in addition to BLBC. Note that their measurement without anything is already better than in most professional music studios, so these measurements were made in a room with a lot of acoustic treatment, 99% of people will not have an RT60 like on these measurements. The recommendation for proffessional studios is -200ms from 500Hz, they are less than that in measurements lol. But still, it's really really impressive. And i can't wait to try it all.

 

[peng]

XT32 work has good as DLBC? Did you see the Waterfall measurement with DLBC from Dirac? Pretty good reduction on time domain. Can you share some measurement with XT32 if you have one? I never seen a waterfall comparaison with and without XT32...

No, I didn't say that in my post, just that if one use the $20 app with Ratubuddyssey, then XT32 SubEQ HT can do a good job too. I would expect the same (or better) results can be achieved if one uses the $200 MultEQ X app.

Your point on the waterfall but I don't have too many graphs to look at, other than I know the FR response graphs show DL without DLBC weren't better when the corrected range was limited to 1,000 Hz or so, and they don't sound much different to me either.

DL's impulse response looks a little better, not sure about the waterfall, but I think in terms of integrating the main towers and my two subs, Audyssey Sub EQ HT did do a decent job, as evidence in the FR + Subs, FL + Subs and FL+FR+Subs response graphs.

The graphs above are "as found" iirc, that is, no manual tweaks with the app.

 

[GurvanBHC]

No, I didn't say that in my post, just that if one use the $20 app with Ratubuddyssey, then XT32 SubEQ HT can do a good job too. I would expect the same (or better) results can be achieved if one uses the $200 MultEQ X app.

Your point on the waterfall but I don't have too many graphs to look at, other than I know the FR response graphs show DL without DLBC weren't better when the corrected range was limited to 1,000 Hz or so, and they don't sound much different to me either.

DL's impulse response looks a little better, not sure about the waterfall, but I think in terms of integrating the main towers and my two subs, Audyssey Sub EQ HT did do a decent job, as evidence in the FR + Subs, FL + Subs and FL+FR+Subs response graphs.

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View attachment 265654View attachment 265655

The graphs above are "as found" iirc, that is, no manual tweaks with the app.

Your crossover point is 70hz? Yes DL has messed up the crossover point here. Dirac Live is a little bit cleaner on your measurement but yes, you are right it is not so obvious with only Dirac Live without DLBC against XT32 SubEQ.

 

[peng]

Your crossover point is 70hz? Yes DL has messed up the crossover point here. Dirac Live is a little bit cleaner on your measurement but yes, you are right it is not so obvious with only Dirac Live without DLBC against XT32 SubEQ.

80 Hz. I have yet to find time to repeat the measurements with DLBC, hopefully will get smoother results at the same 65 to 80 Hz range.