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Debating Denon 3800h, 4700h, and Onkyo RZ50...thoughts?

GabrielPhoto

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Ok so it comes down to those 3 receivers....
This is my current line of thinking for each of them.

Denon 3800h:
Possibility of Dirac....but is it ANY better than Audyssey that I am used to?
Selectable pre-amp mode so I can use my 7 channel amp (1.6v) and power Atmos with the AVR. That way I should be getting about 90dB SINAD
Then there is the 4 sub output also.
Tactile transducer option would be nice in the future.
Price wise I can get it cheaper than the other 2 (just need to wait until first week of December to receive it though)

Denon 4700h:
In FULL Preamp Mode I get the highest SINAD (does it even matter though?) at 1.6v
It is the only one that got a recommendation from AMIR.
Used price is about the same as the new 3800h for me.
Con is that to go full preamp, I will need to buy an extra 4 channel amp. Or deal with the 80dB SINAD at 1.6v in non preamp mode.

Onkyo RZ50:
Dirac already there...but is it any better? Looks more complicated and flexible but what about actual results??? There will be a learning curve.
SINAD looks to be around 95dB without needing a preamp mode at 1.6v thus I wont have to buy any extra amps like with the 4700h to get into the higher SINAD performance. Odd how this can be cleaner than the 3800h without a preamp mode.
Runs cooler than the other 2.
Cons are one single sub output...no Audyssery (con or pro? lol). The most expensive for me of the 3. Extra learning curve as I am used to Denon and Audyssey.


Extra info, I have a Monolith THX 365c 7x200 AMP.
7.1.4 setup
I have a MiniDSP that I am yet to learn and use buts is there. The 2x4HD
Only one input from my HTPC HDMI connection to my JVC Projector. Oh and one media box for 3D but hardly ever used.
 

AdamG247

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One point to consider is that the Audyssey has the Audyeesy Eq App. I find the app very valuable for tweaking in the Auto Audyeesy Calibration results. Quite powerful tool for getting excellent results. Audyssey has come a long way and the App is a major bonus. Just food for thought.

iOS:

Android:
 
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GabrielPhoto

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One point to consider is that the Audyssey has the Audyeesy Eq App. I find the app very valuable for tweaking in the Auto Audyeesy Calibration results. Quite powerful tool for getting excellent results. Audyssey has come a long way and the App is a major bonus. Just food for thought.

iOS:

Android:
I do use the Audyssey with my Tablet. Just watching videos of Dirac it seems to have a LOT of flexibility and potential but of course, hard to tell how the actual results are. It seems a LOT of people on this forum lean towards Dirac ...at least that was my impression searching.
 

AdamG247

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Or deal with the 80dB SINAD at 1.6v in non preamp mode.
In real terms of “can we really hear the difference?” I would not obsess about this SINAD number. I doubt most could tell the difference in a controlled blind. Your profile indicates you are in your early 40’s. Our hearing gets progressively worse as we age. Take an online hearing test and find out exactly what your hearing range is. You might be surprised if you can hear anything above 14-15hz. Let this be your real life guide.

This is a good one and you can export your hearing profile for import to Apple and other audio programs that will create a custom eq matched to your actual hearing profile.

 
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[…] You might be surprised if you can hear anything above 14-15hz. Let this be your real life guide.

This is a good one and you can export your hearing profile for import to Apple and other audio programs that will create a custom eq matched to your actual hearing profile.

You meant 14-15KHz not Hz, right?

Edit:
Also, people keep saying old people cannot hear above certain high frequency threshold, but that’s not the whole story. When listening to complex audio, some higher frequencies are combined together or create new vibrations and the convoluted results fall into the lower thresholds. I might not use the right terms, but that’s the basic idea I read about it somewhere 20 years ago. I let people who studied this explain it. So, it’s critical to have a good low noise high fidelity full high frequencies, in case some of those come into lower frequencies.
 
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delta76

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If you buy a new x4700h now it's very likely it's an updated version with new DAC, not the one with AKM DAC Amir reviewed.
I don't think it matters that much, especially with your setup (home theatre) anyway. I was wondering about those three and went with x4700h because it was the best deal I've got. Should x3800h or RZ50 had the similar deal, I would buy them also.

Audyssey XT32 is very good. And I think adding a sub to your setup and independently managing it makes a big difference. AFAIK only x4700h and x3800h can do that, RZ is basically 2 mirrored subs.
 
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GabrielPhoto

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Last update. After comparing both 3800h and rz50 side by side, the Onkyo surprisingly was the winner.
Got a great price from my dealer as well so that made it even sweeter lol
As a long time xt32 user here..I gotta say... Dirac is the real deal!
 

ssekdad

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How did you company the 3800h and the RZ50? Did you get to do a live audio comparison? What were the key differences?
 
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How did you compare the 3800h and the RZ50? Did you get to do a live audio comparison? What were the key differences?

Thank you - getting really frustrated at these internet pronouncements without a basic "why?" explanation, and what were said poster's priorities. Even if already posted, please summarize said priorities and findings.
 

Bren Derlin

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Why bother having him explain his choice? “This is a scientific review site”, subjective head-to-head comparisons (opinions - basically “you like what like”) are demonstrably shunned as untrustworthy in this forum, because “someone else had a different experience”.

Offering up his thoughts to explain why he chose what he did, without providing measurements in his home to validate his preferences, will simply get ridiculed — especially considering there are measurements proving the RZ50 is a terrible/non-recommended option.
 
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GabrielPhoto

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Thank you - getting really frustrated at these internet pronouncements without a basic "why?" explanation, and what were said poster's priorities. Even if already posted, please summarize said priorities and findings.
Frustrated? Then go buy both and test yourself. I already stated several key factors here and at avsforum. You already have the measurements for both here so if all you care about are measurements at levels so high where it really doesn't matter to humans then base your purchases on all the numbers you can find here.and be happy.
Measurements matter up to a point where it makes no difference to humans.
What really frustrates me is people that want others to make purchase decisions for themselves without making a minimum effort....proven by the following statement

"Even if already posted, please summarize said priorities and findings."

So sure even it already has been posted I want people to once again post it so I don't even have to bother looking for the comment...I like to keep my lazy ass glued to my comfy sofa eating cheese puffs....come on now
 
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GabrielPhoto

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Why bother having him explain his choice? “This is a scientific review site”, subjective head-to-head comparisons (opinions - basically “you like what like”) are demonstrably shunned as untrustworthy in this forum, because “someone else had a different experience”.

Offering up his thoughts to explain why he chose wdat he did, without providing measurements in his home to validate his preferences, will simply get ridiculed — especially considering there are measurements proving the RZ50 is a terrible/non-recommended option.
Terrible and not recommended if your ears are at superhuman levels and are bothered at levels that only sophisticated measurement tools can detect differences...for the rest of us, try both and pick the one you prefer. I was a Denon and Audyssey fanboy but not anymore after trying the rz50 even tbough I was able to get them for the same price (3800h and rz50).
 
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Frustrated? Then go buy both and test yourself. I already stated several key factors here and at avsforum. You already have the measurements for both here so if all you care about are measurements at levels so high where it really doesn't matter to humans then base your purchases on all the numbers you can find here.and be happy.
Measurements matter up to a point where it makes no difference to humans.
What really frustrates me is people that want others to make purchase decisions for themselves without making a minimum effort....proven by the following statement

"Even if already posted, please summarize said priorities and findings."

So sure even it already has been posted I want people to once again post it so I don't even have to bother looking for the comment...I like to keep my lazy ass glued to my comfy sofa eating cheese puffs....come on now

My commentary wasn't directed specifically at you, just the general choices people make without giving an explanation so I could compare your priorities to mine. My complaint wasn't meant as a personal attack, I was asking for more information. I agree with you on measurements not being everything, and listening tests aren't that reliable. Perhaps it's ease of operation, convenient features or maybe it just looks better? I don't care what the reasons are, I just thought it would be nice to summarize your reasons for choosing one over the other in said "decision" post. I've read your posts previously, just don't have a photographic memory and finding them (on two different sites) isn't as easy as you say - you know that.
 
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GabrielPhoto

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You do realise that Denon is getting Dirac DLBC in a month right?
You do realize this thread started back in November, right? And we will see what and when it actually comes out.
 

ArturoKiwi

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You do realise that Denon is getting Dirac DLBC in a month right?
D+M will have Dirac live, not DLBC, in a month. More or less. But you will have to pay for it.
Onkyo already have it, included in the avr price
 
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