DAC recommendations

[SiR]

Hi,

being a new Marantz owner ( PM 8006 ) like to know anyone using / used PM8006, to give your suggestion / recommendation based on your experience with it, about the DAC that gives Transparent / Neutral sound at the budget of around $700 ?

As of now using WiiM PRO as a Streamer cum DAC, Speaker PSB Alpha T20


TIA

 

[voodooless]

Buy anything that’s within your budget and fits your requirements that’s tested in ASR and is recommended. They are all transparent and will all sound exactly the same.

 

[JSmith]

PM8006

The amp output only has a SINAD of circa 69dB... so you will be limited by that anyway.

MARANTZ PM8006

PM8006 to najnowszy wzmacniacz zintegrowany w ofercie Marantza. Wcześniej w serii PMx006 pojawił się sporo tańszy PM6006, ale w ofercie wciąż ...

audio.com.pl

JSmith

 

[SiR]

The amp output only has a SINAD of circa 69dB... so you will be limited by that anyway.

MARANTZ PM8006

PM8006 to najnowszy wzmacniacz zintegrowany w ofercie Marantza. Wcześniej w serii PMx006 pojawił się sporo tańszy PM6006, ale w ofercie wciąż ...

audio.com.pl

JSmith

Being a Newbie, what is that " The amp output only has a SINAD of circa 69dB " mean ?

If its ok with you @JSmith to give a brief of it to get an understanding


TIA

 

[JSmith]

Being a Newbie, what is that " The amp output only has a SINAD of circa 69dB " mean ?

If its ok with you @JSmith to give a brief of it to get an understanding


TIA

Certainly (brief)... SINAD (signal-to-noise and distortion) is basically the reciprocal on THD+N (total harmonic distortion + noise, assuming over the same bandwidth). It's easier as it's a positive whole number. If you look at what I posted you can see the THD+N figure for 5W output and here testing is done at 5W (many other specs at 1W).

0.1% THD+N is +60dB SINAD
0.01% THD+N is +80dB SINAD

The measurements I posted are not as thorough as done here, but is giving us a general indication as to noise and distortion. So what I was saying is if you have a DAC that is 120dB SINAD... you are limited by the SINAD (noise and distortion) of the amplifier itself.

I'm not saying that will be an audible issue... but I'm not saying it may not be either, depending on many factors.

What DAC are you using now and what is wrong with it?


JSmith

 

[VintageFlanker]

The amp output only has a SINAD of circa 69dB... so you will be limited by that anyway.

Well... not quite. Audio Poland's instrumentation is known to have some pretty high noise floor that totally mess THD+N figures. It is useful tho, to observe clipping behaviour and power.

about the DAC that gives Transparent / Neutral sound at the budget of around $700 ?

Anything that fits your budget. Any good enough DAC from 80 to 700$ will have transparent sound. You would have to make your choice based on design, features, connectivity and so on.

 

[SiR]

Thanks a lot for your swift response @Smith

" So what I was saying is if you have a DAC that is 120dB SINAD... you are limited by the SINAD (noise and distortion) of the amplifier itself. "

Can I understand that the limitation of the amplifier with its SINAD may not help the benefit of DAC's 120db SINAD ?

"What DAC are you using now and what is wrong with it? "

As of now using WiiM PRO's DAC

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Being a Newbie, what is that " The amp output only has a SINAD of circa 69dB " mean ?

If its ok with you @JSmith to give a brief of it to get an understanding


TIA

The difference between the quietest sounds you can hear and the loudest sounds the amplifier can make is the signal to noise ratio. SINAD covers this and includes the distortion (errors caused by the electronics). CD and 16 bit DACs have at least 96dB (decibels). This (because dB is a logarithmic scale), means that any DAC has hundreds of times less distortion and noise than your amplifier.

So your amplifier will mask any differences between DACs. 69dB is not terrible, but it could be better.

 

[SiR]

Well... not quite. Audio Poland's instrumentation is known to have some pretty high noise floor that totally mess THD+N figures. It is useful tho, to observe clipping behaviour and power.


Anything that fits your budget. Any good enough DAC from 80 to 700$ will have transparent sound. You would have to make your choice based on design, features, connectivity and so on.

Welcome your response @VintageFlanker

As U could understand now, why I brought the topic of LPS usage in a thread in WiiM forum, to see any betterment in the Wiim's performance, as the DAC in it is used

 

[JSmith]

WiiM PRO

@VintageFlanker measured this and posted the results here;

WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements Hey folks, It is time for my first review of 2023... This one is about a complete objective analysis of the new WiiM Pro streamer. The aforementioned has been recently announced, back in November 2022, and I can see quite a strong hype around it since. That...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Audio Poland's instrumentation is known to have some pretty high noise floor that totally mess THD+N figures

Yeah that's why I added the caveat "The measurements I posted are not as thorough as done here", meaning take with a grain of salt.


JSmith

 

[SiR]

@Smith @VintageFlanker

@VintageFlanker measured this and posted the results here;

I went through it as soon he posted it and after reading his review I was satisfied that I got a decent Streamer, thank HIM for the review

Since its digital transport is excellent, now I wanted to use a good DAC and hence came here

 

[JSmith]

Since its digital transport is excellent, now I wanted to use a good DAC and hence came here

You may like this, recently tested and only $200;

SMSL D-6s Balanced DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL D-6s balanced stereo DAC with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $199. I was pleasantly surprised with the new industrial design which while minimalistic, manages to impress with its modern style. Love the matt...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Otherwise, have a look through the Review Index;

Master Audio Review Index

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[voodooless]

As U could understand now, why I brought the topic of LPS usage in a thread in WiiM forum, to see any betterment in the Wiim's performance, as the DAC in it is used

Please don't waste any money on that. The measurements show that it basically scores only a hair worse than the DAC datasheet on distortion and that the noise is already pretty good. You probably could have bought an external DAC for the same amount of money, and actually gotten an objective sound improvement. If you could actually hear that though, is a totally different story.

 

[Mac Arthur]

I would add a bit on the budget and go for the RME ADI2 DAC FS.
Tested by "the boss" here. I owe one and it's amazing and with a lot of additional features.

 

[voodooless]

I would add a bit on the budget and go for the RME ADI2 DAC FS.
Tested by "the boss" here. I owe one and it's amazing and with a lot of additional features.

The only really useful feature I see in this context is Loudness, but only if you use the volume control of the DAC. The WiiM already has quite a bit of EQ possibilities, much more than the RME.

To be honest, the best money spent is probably on a measurement microphone so you can correct your in-room response via the WiiM. It will give you an actual, substantial sound quality upgrade.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Since its digital transport is excellent, now I wanted to use a good DAC and hence came here

Or just sell your WiiM Pro and get a WiiM Pro Plus instead...

WiiM Pro Plus - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

WiiM Pro Plus - Review & Measurements Hi Folks, Here is another review, measurements-based, today about the WiiM Pro Plus (or "Pro+"). While some rumors already mentioned it for the last couple of months, it is just launched today (August 8) officially. The WiiM Pro Plus comes with a $220...

www.audiosciencereview.com

You just buy peace of mind and won't have to worry anymore.

 

[drewdawg999]

If you're willing to splurge a bit then the SMSL D400 Pro looks nice in silver. You're paying for a nice and shiny chassis, MQA and flagship AKM chips. Could get equivalent performance much cheaper but it just wouldn't look as nice. I prefer not to pay for MQA so I have a D-6, DO100 and Sanskrit 10th mkII. All transparent to my ears, which are satisfied by 90dB SINAD, far surpassed by all 3. The D-6 edges it out for me due to DSD performance.