Cooked my AVR?

[N1ck]

I am in the process of building my false wall and built in speakers. The other day I needed to thread the right speaker cable through a small gap so twisted the + and - cable ends together to make them fit. Unfortunately, I completely forgot and powered my Denon 2313 back on. When I realised there was no sound coming from right speaker I reconnected but now it crackles and has high distortion.

Im guessing I have goosed it. I’ve tried other speakers and they all sound the same so it is definitely the amp.

I don’t use the centre channel (phantom centre mode). Is there a way to reassign the channel? If not I presume it is just the amp stage that has gone bad. Could I simply connect a power amp such as the Behringer A800 and restore the sound?

I posted this on Avforums where I received 1 reply suggesting I have ruined the windings of the out put transformer. Would this sound about right and would connecting pre outs to the A800 bypass this to resolve the issue.

 

[Doodski]

I posted this on Avforums where I received 1 reply suggesting I have ruined the windings of the out out transformer.

Not likely to the 9th degree. Most likely one output transistor has fried and that results in static distorted sound output. I'm surprised the protection circuitry or fuse has not gone. Have you checked the fuse(s). Sometimes if there are dedicated rail fuses one fuse will open and then the output sound is distorted.

I don’t use the centre channel (phantom centre mode). Is there a way to reassign the channel? If not I presume it is just the amp stage that has gone bad. Could I simply connect a power amp such as the Behringer A800 and restore the sound?

I don't recommend operating a amp with one blown channel. It invites the opportunity for more damage to be done to the amp circuitry simply by being powered ON.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Probably connecting the pre outs to an external amp would work unless the circuit is done in a way that whole channel fried.

As for the output transformer comment, your AVR doesn't have output transformers. Maybe they were thinking of the power transformer for that channel, but I think most AVR's use one large one to power all the channels. As the rest of your channels are fine that isn't the issue.

A way to test the preamp out would be to get an adapter to feed it to some headphones. It might not play them loudly , but should let you figure out if the output at preamp level is still clean. Even better if you have a headphone amp and can feed the RCA out to the amp to play over the phones.

An adapter like this would work, you only have to connect one of the RCAs.

https://www.amazon.com/VCE-2-Pack-Plated-Female-Adapter/dp/B06XCR898P/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=headphone+to+rca+adapter&qid=1662424679&sr=8-4

I don't know if operating with one blown channel would cause issues for others as Doodski suggests. I suppose it could. If your AVR isn't quite recent, then maybe a good time to just upgrade to a current one.

 

[Doodski]

@N1ck a service manual can be found here. Download it for easy operation as it is large in file size. Go to page 29 and run the Protection and Service Check modes.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Looking at the back of your Denon AVR, I don't see preamp outputs except for subs, and stereo for other zones. If you are using only stereo and not surround without center then it might work with an external amp.

 

[N1ck]

Thank you for the wealth of information and advice.
I’ve doubled checked the back and it does have pre outs.
I am fully intending to upgrade to a new Denon, I just feel as though now is not the best time to do it with the expectation of new models arriving imminently.
Saying that some X3700s are popping up at some good price…beginning of the end of line, maybe? The only other real sticking point is the lower quality DACs they’re using. I feel (hope) they will be going back the the proper ones with the new model.

 

[pseudoid]

Thank you for the wealth of information and advice.
I’ve doubled checked the back and it does have pre outs.
I am fully intending to upgrade to a new Denon, I just feel as though now is not the best time to do it with the expectation of new models arriving imminently.
Saying that some X3700s are popping up at some good price…beginning of the end of line, maybe? The only other real sticking point is the lower quality DACs they’re using. I feel (hope) they will be going back the the proper ones with the new model.

You will realize that I am biased in the suggestions I am about to make:
Think about going 'separates', so that you don't experience such a single point failure that takes your whole 'entertainment system' out of commission.
It sounds like it is an opportune time to invest in a power amplifier to feed it w/the pre-outs from your semi-working Denon.
At a later point, you can pick yourself up the new Topping DX-7Pro or sumsuch.

 

[Chrispy]

Thank you for the wealth of information and advice.
I’ve doubled checked the back and it does have pre outs.
I am fully intending to upgrade to a new Denon, I just feel as though now is not the best time to do it with the expectation of new models arriving imminently.
Saying that some X3700s are popping up at some good price…beginning of the end of line, maybe? The only other real sticking point is the lower quality DACs they’re using. I feel (hope) they will be going back the the proper ones with the new model.

Yes, they've announced (leaked) the Xx800 series now, so would expect some better pricing on the Xx700 series upcoming. What's wrong with their dacs? Yes, agree your 2313 has pre-outs from the pic I just looked at.

 

[RayDunzl]

Does it have plug-in amp modules?

Couldn't find an internal picture.

Remove the offender, and replace it with an unused (if there is one) channel?

 

[Doodski]

Does it have plug-in amp modules?

Couldn't find an internal picture.

Remove the offender, and replace it with an unused (if there is one) channel?

I enlarged and copied from the service manual.

 

[N1ck]

Yes, they've announced (leaked) the Xx800 series now, so would expect some better pricing on the Xx700 series upcoming. What's wrong with their dacs? Yes, agree your 2313 has pre-outs from the pic I just looked at.

They’ve replaced their AKM DACs with the lower grade PCM5102A Which I don’t believe has been retested. The test of the x3700 Amir did had the AKM dacs. The replacements are a little unknown.

 

[N1ck]

You will realize that I am biased in the suggestions I am about to make:
Think about going 'separates', so that you don't experience such a single point failure that takes your whole 'entertainment system' out of commission.
It sounds like it is an opportune time to invest in a power amplifier to feed it w/the pre-outs from your semi-working Denon.
At a later point, you can pick yourself up the new Topping DX-7Pro or sumsuch.

I’ve had a Lexicon pro/Linn power before Linked up to some MK speakers. If I’m brutally honest, I struggled to hear Much difference between them and a Denon 3805…I may even have preferred the Denon.
I’m happy to get a cheap 2 channel amp e.g. a Behringer A800 but the comment earlier by @Doodski made me think this wasn’t a good idea.

 

[N1ck]

Does it have plug-in amp modules?

Couldn't find an internal picture.

Remove the offender, and replace it with an unused (if there is one) channel?

I have no idea, and I wouldn’t know how to do that either unfortunately.

 

[Chrispy]

They’ve replaced their AKM DACs with the lower grade PCM5102A Which I don’t believe has been retested. The test of the x3700 Amir did had the AKM dacs. The replacements are a little unknown.

Ah, was thinking more in general terms and forgot about their running out on the initial chip used.....but doubt it's of great concern myself.

 

[Chrispy]

I’ve had a Lexicon pro/Linn power before Linked up to some MK speakers. If I’m brutally honest, I struggled to hear Much difference between them and a Denon 3805…I may even have preferred the Denon.

I wouldn't find that surprising.

 

[djtetei]

@N1ck
In my opinion, if you really use a multichannel setup, the best course of action would be to repair your Denon 2313 AVR, because it is well equipped and mainly because it has multichannel pre-outputs.
Personally, I'm a stereo system user, mainly because I work with music, but when I do watch movies I still use a stereo system setup.
The only AV receiver I would buy would be one fitted wilth analog pre-outputs for all channels and minimum two subwoofer pre-outputs, in order to use external high power amplifiers and speakers of my choosing.
In order to enjoy a good surround sound experience requires a dedicated room (home theater), built specifically for this purpose, without any furniture or other accessories tipical for home daily life.
Most homes these days don't have such an accomodation and most people can't afford the luxury to spare an entire room for home theatre surround sound experience.
So, if you are using only a stereo setup (you mentioned earlier the Behringer A800 stereo amplifier) and you don't want to repair your existing AVR, you can treat yourself with a very good stereo amplifier able to deliver at least double the power capacity of your speakers, in order to ensure good headroom for peaks and to be able to drive your speakers to their full potential with low distortion and no signal clipping.

 

[polmuaddib]

In order to enjoy a good surround sound experience requires a dedicated room (home theater), built specifically for this purpose, without any furniture or other accessories tipical for home daily life.

Why? Never mind why, I don't think that statement is true.
There are some advantages to that approach, sure, but c'mon...

 

[djtetei]

If the room is big enough to allow proper placement and distances for all speakers and subwoofers, yes, one can enjoy the surround sound experience.

 

[N1ck]

My room is not ideal. The sofa is close to the rear wall but I still get a lot of enjoyment from multichannel. Rear effects are superb and exciting. When a Jurassic Park T. rex pops up behind you for example or bullets fly past your ears in Saving Private Ryan, the sensation can be exhilarating. It really puts you in the scene, something that stereo cannot do, no matter how good. When watching Sky sports the crowd is all around you, immersing you in the moment. There really is no compromise.

Anyway, back on topic. The 2313 was a stop gap. I have installed Atmos speakers and the 2313 can’t play those. I don’t really see value in repairing it. I see value in getting a 2 channel power amp if it’ll get the 2313 to work until the new Denon models out…and then use the power amp to power the front 2. If I need to, I’ll wait, but I have just finished doing up my false wall so I can install some Kef in walls. It’s taken me months so Im disappointed and impatient that I can’t actually play them now.

 

[djtetei]

The minimum room size I would consider for a surround sound setup is 5 meters long and 3 meters wide (without any other furniture). In any room smaller than that, I would stick to a stereo setup.
Given the fact that your existing AVR don't have support for Dolby Atmos content, I would save the money for an upgrade to a Dolby Atmos compatible AVR, but the pre-outputs for all channels and at least two subwoofers must be mandatory.