Classical music and space for new recordings

[JJB70]

I'm not sure if anything I'm about to write here makes any sense so please feel free to write it off as pointless drivel. Lately I've been very much enjoying Gerd Schaller's wonderful cycle of Bruckner recordings, he used various editions not normally used in other recordings and his recordings do bring something genuinely fresh to the table. I have two other complete Bruckner symphony cycles (Karajan's mid 70's set with the BPO and Inbal's under rated and neglected set with the Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra, as well as Karajan's final recordings of the 7th and 8th with the VPO) and to be quite honest wonder what space there is for further recordings other than cases such as Schaller's Bruckner where alternative editions are used? I find that the recorded quality of classical music recorded from the 1960's onwards is fine, in fact in some cases it can be better than later trends in recording using the multi-mic technique if you don't mind a little analogue hiss, it's not low-fi. I have all sorts of older recordings where the recording quality just isn't an issue despite the age of the recordings. And the back catalogue of companies like Warner and Universal means they can just keep offering old recordings of the entire mainstream (and a lot of the less mainstream works) of classical music in versions which were superbly performed and recorded and sell them for peanuts and still be up on the deal. Where does that leave contemporary artists though? If we take Bruckner as an example, Schaller offers something new which has carved out a space, but if looking at the more usual editions I'm perfectly happy with the Karajan set plus the two final single versions he did of the 7th and 8th and see no reason to keep buying recordings of works I already have which in most cases bring nothing to the table that I don't already have. Which begs the question what is the future for the classical music industry? I know music is cheap now, but still. In my younger days I'd not have bought multiple Wagner ring cycles and multiple complete cycles of a whole host of composers symphonies and other works which I now have because it is now so much cheaper and more accessible but there comes a point even with this improved accessibility where I ask myself whether I really need or even want another set of Beethoven symphonies for example. A record label promoting contemporary orchestras and conductors knows that they face competition from a back catalogue that can be re-issued for next to nothing and which includes a host of legendary (iconic) recordings. Maybe the future is a return to music as a live experience for contemporary artists, and anything which promotes music as a live experience is good, but I do wonder what (if any) future there is for further classical recordings.

 

[Soniclife]

I think it's an interesting question, hopefully an interesting thread.

I found with classical music one of the things holding me back from enjoying it was listening to classic classical music, once I started listening to modern classical music (composer still alive, often similar age or younger than me) I started liking it. The old stuff still says nothing to me about my life.

I think your asking a related question to one I ask myself often, how much music can an individual absorb in a lifetime, with bonus points for what the optimum amount of music should be absorbed. But you are adding to this a limitation of a narrow field of recordings being re-recorded.

Do you think the classical repotoir can be expanded?

 

[maty]

I do not like too much Karajan with Bruckner. Jochum, Wand, Celibicache, Harnoncourt, Klemperer...

BTW, I did not remember I had:

Furtwängler, Berliner P - Bruckner - Symphony No 5 In B Flat (1942), CD, mono, Testament 2011 remastered, UK

https://www.discogs.com/Wilhelm-Furtwängler-Berliner-Philharmoniker-Bruckner-Symphony-No-5/release/12747951

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-Nr-5-Bruckner/dp/B004U9M8X4

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR12 -1.26 dB -19.30 dB 19:18 01-I. Introduction: Adagio - allegro
DR12 -2.53 dB -20.54 dB 15:38 02-II. Adagio: Sehr langsam
DR12 -0.35 dB -18.71 dB 12:04 03-III. Scherzo: Molto vivace & Trio
DR13 -0.28 dB -17.72 dB 21:59 04-IV. Finale: Adagio - Allegro moderato
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 4
Official DR value: DR12

I like very much with Beethoven, the ninth.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/music/6958-playing-listening-post5796227.html

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Maybe the future is a return to music as a live experience for contemporary artists, and anything which promotes music as a live experience is good, but I do wonder what (if any) future there is for further classical recordings.

I believe that I appreciate your position and my collection is filled with such older but inimitable recordings. However, they are the distillate of the past and we cannot compare them to the transient figures of the present. It is only through the lens of experience that we will find which of today's performances will achieve a similar stature in the future.

However, I do question your presumption that the sound quality of those classic recordings (or, at least, many of them) continues to be adequate today. Modern high-resolution, multichannel recordings are substantially and audibly superior and, one hopes, more and more will possess superior performances.

 

[Ceburaska]

Its interesting to listen to the BBC Building a library recommendations, which do usually range from earliest recorded to latest. They are reasonably impartial, but sometimes seem to have a prejudice that older recordings will be old-fashioned, either in performance, sound quality, or both. For 19th century or earlier classical music this seems amusing, but then you realise there are fashions in classical music, as in everything.
Anyway, you are probably right in that the basic repertoire is more than amply covered, so what do current musicians have to offer?
1. Live performances
2. Different versions of current repertoire, either due to HIP, instruments (like Rachel Podger playing Bach cello suites on violin), alternate readings, etc
3. Broadening the repertoire, e.g. Sheku Kanneh-Mason plays Bob Marley and Leonard Cohen
4. Better sound quality. You’d imagine, surely? Kal is no doubt right to point out hi res and multi channel are relatively recent, but I listen to plenty of mono recordings and often find them as enthralling as anything from the past few decades.
5. Marketing

 

[Frank Dernie]

I have tended to buy more versions of music I like, because I know I like it
In many cases I still end up preferring the version I originally came to love, familiarity, I suppose.
I do find that I am much more likely to play a performance I like than a recording with superior sound but a less enjoyable, to me, performance.

 

[RayDunzl]

Do you think the classical repotoir can be expanded?

Not unless we can go back in time to the Classical Period and commission some more works.

On the other hand, if it is New Orchestral Music you're after, there are still a few people putting dots on music paper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_21st-century_classical_composers (misnamed as they would currently be Contemporary Composers)

How To:

 

[DuxServit]

My favorite quotes from the image (thanks @RayDunzl ):

— “Change to your Sears violin” - didn’t know Sears made violins.

— “If arm falls off, reattach and play much slower”

 

[RayDunzl]

A little about one of my favorite dead composers...

 

[RayDunzl]

Modern Orchestral?

Frank Zappa / Ensemble Modern
The Yellow Shark
Alte Oper, Frankfurt 17th September 1992

Frank Zappa - 200 Motels Suites - BBC Concert Orchestra 2013

Bolero

Stravinsky Conducts Zappa

 

[Ceburaska]

My favorite quotes from the image (thanks @RayDunzl ):

— “Change to your Sears violin” - didn’t know Sears made violins.

— “If arm falls off, reattach and play much slower”

I like “this is actually unplayable” I’ve thought that about Ligeti sometimes.
And “use smooth side of violin” has no doubt been done, but is still pretty funny.

 

[maty]

I agree with Kal Rubinson about the experience of listening to multichannel music. Spectacular and with video screen.

Old picture

[IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/NB-imagenes/andreu/16042011/sala-andreu-16042011.jpg

The problem is in the availability of good interpretations. The tuning has gone up too much in search of the spectacular but the final sound is too bright, causing auditory fatigue many times.

I seek to get excited and not just comment on how well it sounds.

Many years ago I decided not to read current books because they are badly written. I did the same with music. With few exceptions, I maintain the rule.

 

[RayDunzl]

I like “this is actually unplayable” I’ve thought that about Ligeti sometimes.

 

[maty]

About Furtwangler, Philharmonia O - Beethoven - Symphony No. 9 (1954), CD, Tahra, France I wrote:

Adrenaline rivers. Room in the dark, walking, directing the orchestra and the choir, even singing in playback. There are music and recordings that make you feel alive.

The sound quality is not perfect but the interpretation is magnificent.

 

[RayDunzl]

I like “this is actually unplayable” I’ve thought that about Ligeti sometimes.

Then there's this...

 

[Ceburaska]

Great performance, the visuals are really essential though.
Similarly, watching Yuja Wang play Ligeti improves the experience enormously.

 

[RayDunzl]

watching Yuja Wang

 

[ChrisH]

I enjoy the wealth of new and interesting classical recordings and truly think every orchestra and opera house should make all of their performances available. The technology is certainly there to do this. I am a collector though, so my view is slightly different than most.

The way classical music lives off of its past really hurts the growth of the music. Why should I check out anything new when the 'best' is already available, and has been for 40years. Should I spend money going to hear Yannick conduct the MET, when he is nothing if not a pale imitation of what could be heard 50 years ago? Maybe I shouldn't buy the Asher Fisch Ring Cycle with Seattle, I already have the Solti, and nothing tops that! Who needs another Mahler recording when we already have Bernstien and Abbado? As was stated in the OP, do we really need Schaller when we already have Karajan? Of course we do, Schaller is an infinitely more interesting interpreter of Bruckner than Karajan, and many other of the older school.

These composer that have stood the test of time were breakers of tradition. They moved their art forward. Now, all the classical music world lives on is tradition and wishing for the good old days.

Also, we need more blind listening in classical music. As with anything involving audio, perception might change.

 

[orangejello]

However, I do question your presumption that the sound quality of those classic recordings (or, at least, many of them) continues to be adequate today. Modern high-resolution, multichannel recordings are substantially and audibly superior and, one hopes, more and more will possess superior performances.

Amen. And this issue is compounded by high resolution electronics. The DACs and amps that we have access to are exposing problems with older recordings that I was never aware of before. I used to use Mercury Living Presence (Golden Import vinyl and CDs) as sort of a reference. On high resolution equipment it is amazing to hear some of the subtle flaws in some of these recording. On other older classical recording I am amazed by the problem of tape saturation and clipping I hear in the tutti sections at ffff.

More recent classical recording can be really weird too. I always though that Hyperion did exemplary recordings . I was listening to Angela Hewitt doing the Bach keyboard concertos the other day. The piano was stretched out from right speaker to left, and the violins were, for the most part, in between, occasionally reaching out to the right speaker. This had the effect of mashing the orchestra into the piano. I put my tube amp back in and the problem was a little less distracting. On a Naxos recording of Rienhold Gliere's pieces, you can hear the compression kick in as crescendos are approaching. I was never acutely aware of these problems when using my my older amps and dacs. The problems got masked to a degree in the overall playback distortion.

But good modern recordings are amazing. For awhile I was blaming my new, low-distortion equipment for sounding unmusical. Many recording have a stridency that I was not aware of. It takes one good recording to exonerate the equipment. Fortunately I found a few. So, now I just re-calibrate my expectations of older recording, listen past the problems, and enjoy the performance if it is worthy. That was not an easy transition. I cannot say that it is a bad idea to listen to tube gear that obscures these problems to some extent, because it takes a lot less effort to enjoy older/flawed recordings. I recall reading a review at Six Moons where the reviewer seemed to be slightly dismissive of some ncore amp for not being sufficiently refined and musical. What I realized he was unconsciously saying (masked by his lyrical prose) is that he likes the subtle coloring that his other equipment provides and diminishes the ncore for, ultimately, its accuracy.

In any event, I rarely find modern performers whose interpretations I enjoy as much as the older recording. My favorite string quartet is the Budapest. Many of their recording are not particularly good but that did not bother me until recently when I upgraded to lower distortion playback. Now I have to listen through the recording to get back to the soul of the performance.

 

[maty]

You can mask the problems with DSP. Tube emulators do not work very well with classic music. Or you can do a recoder with SSRC Intermediate or...

[IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/...nvert-profiles-sssrc-96-intermediate-93_9.png