Carver Crimson 275 Measurements

[mhardy6647]

That's all there is? Nothing more?? I've lived my entire life for three lousy square waves?

hey, but with the harmonics, there's way more there than meets the eye.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

hey, but with the harmonics, there's way more there than meets the eye.

View attachment 177321

Cute. Now do this animation with the Carver square waves.

And yes, I was thinking about that song when I wrote that post.

 

[mhardy6647]

just... umm... add a touch of artisanal phase shift and Bob's yer uncle!
In seriousness, all in all, I'd say they're very respectable looking based on what we know so far about the hardware & the circuit design.

 

[Zackthedog]

You can't see 'em? Heck, I even see them in your quote of @paulbottlehead's post (?!).

Okay, NOW they've shown up, thanks.

 

[Zackthedog]

I see the images now. Not all that bad. This is for the factory bought amp?

But I wanna see 30Hz at 20 watts.

I disagree. ;-) At 1K you really should get a dead straight top, maaaaaaybe a little ringing at the leading edge. 10K looks very wobbly, 100Hz is very poor, way to much slant.

Here's a 20 year old Jolida 40wpc I recenty tested, at 60Hz and 10kHz. A little ringing on the top but that just keep things lively, IMO. ;-)

 

[Thermionics]

The factory assembled amp has been sitting about ten miles south of me since the 29th of December. Thanks FedEx!

Let me tell you a story about the car parts shipped from the East Coast on Boxing Day that have been sitting in Minnesota for almost a week, also thanks to FedEx. Seems there are issues with timely deliveries right now.

 

[MaxBuck]

What's really disturbing is there is also a Blue Apron box of food in the FedEx system that has been sitting somewhere for even longer. I definitely will be refusing to accept that one!

Kind of points out the difference between audio (not essential to life) and nutrition (definitely essential to life).

 

[audioholic63]

According to the promotional literature, the small output transformer was a bragging point. If they had wanted to conceal it, they would have potted it.

Yes, lightweight was always a marketing point. My observation was that the amount of effort required to remove the covers (de-soldering things!) made me wonder if that was done to prevent casual inspection. I don't know how hard it should be but I wouldn't have expected anything more than screws.

Makes me wonder if along with the light weight as a selling point if they had also touted that they were using output transformers rated at 15 watts if it wouldn't have scared people off. I mean hell, I've owned Carver SS amps before and I always found the marketing hyperbole a bit much. If my now defunct Cinema Grand had said that it used Adamantine Steel in the tranny I probably would have bought a Bryston (and it probably would still work).

 

[Zackthedog]

Yes, lightweight was always a marketing point. My observation was that the amount of effort required to remove the covers (de-soldering things!) made me wonder if that was done to prevent casual inspection. I don't know how hard it should be but I wouldn't have expected anything more than screws.

Makes me wonder if along with the light weight as a selling point if they had also touted that they were using output transformers rated at 15 watts if it wouldn't have scared people off. I mean hell, I've owned Carver SS amps before and I always found the marketing hyperbole a bit much. If my now defunct Cinema Grand had said that it used Adamantine Steel in the tranny I probably would have bought a Bryston (and it probably would still work).

LOL

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I disagree. ;-) At 1K you really should get a dead straight top, maaaaaaybe a little ringing at the leading edge. 10K looks very wobbly, 100Hz is very poor, way to much slant.

Here's a 20 year old Jolida 40wpc I recenty tested, at 60Hz and 10kHz. A little ringing on the top but that just keep things lively, IMO. ;-)

I was giving a big benefit of the doubt to the Carver amp. I'm surprised that even passed a square wave. Let's be nice to it until it really screws the pooch.

 

[Zackthedog]

I was giving a big benefit of the doubt to the Carver amp. I'm surprised that even passed a square wave. Let's be nice to it until it really screws the pooch.

LOL

 

[Trdat]

Hello Jim!

Why don't you and Bob have a talk and then send a production unit over to Amir for testing..?
Since I'm actually interested in these amps for myself, it would clear the air, so to speak..

How about we place a questionarre

1. A sample amp will be delivered to Amir soon
2. Nothing will be sent to Amir
3. Listening to the amp will be pushed rather than a science based approach
4. Both 2 and 3

I hate being cynical but we have seen and heard this many times before. I totally understand that we should tread very carefully before critsising or judging anything and the OP could have been more tactful and I am culprit myself due to my cynicical approach in this post but the rebuttal so far has been without hard based evidence. So will wait till Amir gets his hands on one.

 

[paulbottlehead]

The amp I ordered is out for delivery today.

 

[JayGilb]

3. Listening to the amp will be pushed rather than a science based approach

That will always happen as it is now on a few Carver related sites. Some sites are reporting on this thread as people going berserk and are offering many explanations on why the measurements must be wrong or that the Carver camp kits were a different design.

I own a rack of Carver SS gear and do so because they sound great and the dollar/watt ratio is good.
I get broken units for cheap and fix them for a few bucks. They can be challenging to repair, but it keeps me busy on a cold winter day.

Looking forward to seeing the test results.

 

[Zackthedog]

Someone on AK has asked if it would be okay to post your square wave shots, Paul. I said I'd relay the request. There's some speculation being bandied about as to how the amp is actually supposed to function--harmonic doubling in the lower octaves, the effectiveness of the various compensation networks, etc.

Also, there's interest in square waves with no load or capacitor only load, but that's up to you, of course. It would be interesting to see how stable the amp is under tough conditions.

 

[paulbottlehead]

How much capacitance would you like me to put across the speaker terminals?

 

[Zackthedog]

How much capacitance would you like me to put across the speaker terminals?

Well, Dave Gillespie over at AK set something of a standard with his Heathkit tests. The old rule of thumb (according to 1950's articles about Williamson oscillation issues) was .05uF across the load at 10kHz without the square wave collapsing indicated "good enough" HF stability for the hobbyist. Dave tends to shoot for .2uF across a load as "very stable."

Unloaded, .05uF seems to be a pretty tough test.

 

[Zackthedog]

And do you mind if they repost your square wave shots?

 

[Zackthedog]

And do you mind if they repost your square wave shots?

Actually, maybe it's better that they point or link to this forum so the context is clear, rather than just grab them, don't you think?

 

[paulbottlehead]

Actually, maybe it's better that they point or link to this forum so the context is clear, rather than just grab them, don't you think?

That's up to you.