-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Can we hear the bottom bits of 24?
- Thread starter earlevel
- Start date
Robin L
Master Contributor
I don't think it would matter practically. If one were close enough to be hearing a +124db signal, they would be temporarily deafened anyway, if not permanently. If one is far enough away to hear a cannon blast without being deafened then it wouldn't be +124db. And a truly quiet orchestral hall is a dream worth realizing. Too bad one doesn't exist. There are realistic limits to the dynamic range a human being can actually hear. And there are real-world practical limits to the noise levels of recording venues.
Last edited:
You failed to see the joke... I give up...
- Thread Starter
- #67
To demonstrate it's not reproducible—or hearable, either is sufficient to get across that excessive concern with the bottom bits is unwarranted. And if it were reproducible, then it might be useful to get an idea of the loudness of the levels I'm discussing. That's the case with the 16-bit, but for the 24-bit we run into limitations. The obvious reference would be noise, but it's too hard to tell test noise from equipment noise. That's easiest to show with the 16-bit, of course. The second obvious would be sine tones, but then you have a resolution problem at the source level. I thought it was pretty clever to come up with the digital sweeps, bummer you think they are useless.
If you like to teach different, that's fine. My experience, with an electrical engineering and DSP background, is that telling someone without that background why they won't hear it, you might as well be telling them it's because of pixie dust in the air, they will doubt it.
I'd be happy to hear what you would do.
I will start with files that have correct data in them first
Last edited:
Robin L
Master Contributor
What's the joke?You failed to see the joke... I give up...
Forget it.
Leiker535
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2020
- Messages
- 273
- Likes
- 343
Depends on what type of music you listen to. Try synthwave or anything EDM, indie, etc. Waveform is just a blob.
It still sounds alright in my headphones though, so a complaint about loudness must take into account medium and genre. But yes this is digression.
- Thread Starter
- #72
Why do you say that? The files have exactly the data intended. Did you try them?I will start with files that have correct data in them first
Last edited:
MakeMineVinyl
Major Contributor
Humor is not allowed here, nor is subjectivity.
- Thread Starter
- #74
OK, you are having download issues or something. The files have been up since 2013, I assure you they are correct and appropriately named, I assure you the links are correct. As I noted, downloading from the direct links can be problematic with browsers, and I gave the link to the article containing the links. You'll find that they are the same exact links, with the files correctly named, the only difference is that you might do better by right-clicking the links in the article, and downloading that way. Honestly, I'm not sure what's going on for you, but I verified all of them multiple ways, the files are correct, they all sound correct (5-bit is loud, 16-bit is quiet, 24-bit is "not there"), and the bit levels are correct in RX 8.
You can see the dB level on the right side if you enlarge the images.
PS—Oh, I see you probably mean the file is a 24-bit wav file—correct, they all are. I could have packed it into a 16-bit wav or (shudder) 8-bit (wav file format is an abomination, ill-conceived, then added onto haphazardly by various companies).
Attachments
Last edited:
Robin L
Master Contributor
I remember when I was at Skywalker for a recording session. I mentioned to one of the staff [thinking I was making a joke] the possibility of Metallica recording there. This gentleman had a very serious look when he told me there's nothing he would welcome more than that. So, there are real world situations of recording that come close to the thought experiment you posted. I don't know how loud Metallica gets. I just know they are really loud. And recordings of the 1812 Overture are not thought experiments either. So I wonder what your point is.
Isn't around -115dB considered to be the limit of human hearing (even for a perfect eared teenager)? So somewhere around 19 to 20 bits.
The fact is there are a few people here having the same issue. If files were corrupted on download we couldn't have opened them as the file headers will be fractured.
I have posted what I am seeing using Audition, which is a major audio editor. Please download and open the files and show us what you are seeing.
Besides the 16-bit and 24-bit file being empty, all three files are 24-bit.
- Thread Starter
- #78
I've verified by listening (5-bit and 16-bit), downloading via https, downloading via ftp. They end up as new download in my Downloads folder, I open them one-by-one with iZotope RX 8, they show the correct amplitude on the dB scale (see the photos above).
Yes, they are all intentionally 24-bit "pcm" (that is "integer" files—wav files, lol, what a mess). I could have made the 16- and 5-bit 16-bit pcm and saved a little space, I didn't, I wanted a uniform container with only the bits changing. Only the bits specified are used in each—±1 lsb of 16-bit, saved in a 24-bit wav, etc.
The files are fine. I wish I could simply attach them to a message.
How are you downloading them? It seems that going to the article and right clicking to download is the most straightforward way.
- Thread Starter
- #79
Oh—lol—look at your right hand scale. It is not empty, you just didn't give it enough vertical gain to see anything!
In fact, all the screenshots you show look as expected. For 5-bit you can see the correct level, and for 16- and 24-bit you don't have enough gain to see those levels.
Here are the download link of the files that I have downloaded using the links on your post. I only linked the two files that are empty. The 5-bit file is not empty.
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life
www.dropbox.com
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life
www.dropbox.com
Please open them in an audio editor, not an audio cleaning software like iZotope RX 8, and post what you see.
Similar threads
